Horses Mouth January 29, 2007 3:13 PM

January 29, 2007 -- 3:13 PM EST // View Comments (3296) // Post a Comment

KLEIN, MAN OF SUBSTANCE, DEFENDS BRODER'S SUBSTANCE-FREE ATTACK ON HILLARY.

Over at Swampland, Joe Klein responds to Atrios and Matthew Yglesias by defending David Broder's silly column attacking Hillary Clinton for not asking questions at the Senate hearing on General Petraeus. Klein writes:

I'm so pleased to have received the coveted wanker of the day award from Atrios, whose civility knows no bounds. But slightly disappointed in the Matt Yglesias post that Atrios links to, since Yglesias does have a reputation for substance over slime...
A Senate hearing is a place to ask questions, not make speeches. Since Senator Clinton has made herself one of the best-informed Democrats on military policy, especially counterinsurgency, I do believe her questions might have illuminated how difficult the belated use of these tactics will be. Finally, Matt avoids responding to the real point here--I'm really interested in the quality of questions Hillary, and all the other candidates, will ask as President. A Senate hearing is the perfect place to demonstrate she has perhaps the most essential skills a President can have--intellectual curiosity and the ability to ask the right questions.

Surely Klein has a far better grasp of what Yglesias actually wrote than he's letting on. The issue here is one of emphasis. At the hearing that Broder wrote about, lots and lots and lots of very important stuff was discussed. Different substantive points of view were offered about the single most important policy decision facing us right now. Clinton -- like many other Senators -- had lots of things to say about this very important decision.

Yet Broder -- who inhabits some of the most powerful opinion-making real estate on the planet right now -- devoted an entire column about this hearing to nothing but a minor question of theatrics. Even assuming that this criticism of Clinton's performance is valid, this failing on her part is dwarfed in importance, to put it mildly, by some of the other rather pressing and complex issues that were discussed.

What's more, Klein -- who likes to think of himself as a Man of Substance -- surely noticed that Broder didn't devote a single word of his column to analyzing what was actually being said about these issues by Hillary and others at the hearing. As I hope I showed below, it's pretty clear that Broder is far more in agreement with Hillary than he is with McCain. Surely Klein would have preferred to see Broder use all his expertise and industry to explain to his readers why he thinks Hillary is right or wrong on the substantive questions that were discussed. Instead, Broder used the occasion to get in a cheap hit and to push a facile comparison that was conjured up with the single goal of making McCain look good in comparison -- even though Broder, by all indications, disagrees with McCain on the key issue at hand.

Yes, a Senator's performance at a hearing such as this could conceivably contain a clue to what sort of President she would be, and perhaps deserves to be taken note of. But an entire column? And what about the dozens of other hearings Hillary has asked questions at? Come on, Broder's effort was just frivolous and petty nonsense -- it's not dissimilar to some of the other shallow obsessing over Hillary we're seeing even with nearly two years to go until Election Day 2008 -- and it's unsightly indeed to see a self-regarding Man of Substance like Klein defend it.

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-- Greg Sargent | Comments (3296) | Post a Comment

COMMENTS:

A Senate hearing is a place to ask questions, not make speeches.

Has Joe Klein ever been to a Senate hearing?

Posted by: Col Bat Guano
Date: January 29, 2007 5:01 PM

ha! very good point. of course, if hillary had asked tough questions, she would have been accused of being hectoring, partisan, and of course, uncivil...

Posted by: Greg
Date: January 29, 2007 5:06 PM

Two things:

"A Senate hearing is a place to ask questions, not make speeches."

Joe Klein, meet Joe Biden.

"it's unsightly indeed to see a self-regarding Man of Substance like Klein defend it."

Well, self-regarding, at least.

Posted by: Farinata X
Date: January 29, 2007 5:09 PM

yes, FX, but Joe Biden is a very serious centrist, so when he gives speeches, we should listen...

Posted by: Greg
Date: January 29, 2007 5:17 PM

Given klein's work at the "swampland" and that of the other contributors there I'd be a much more careful at throwing around "substance" arguments than he is here.

But self-awareness and honestly have never hobbled klein as a writer, or a human.

Posted by: ice weasel
Date: January 29, 2007 5:30 PM

"Joe Klein, meet Joe Biden."

Farinata X, certainly we can do better than that. Let's try this:

Joe Klein, meet Jeff Sessions.

Posted by: milo
Date: January 29, 2007 5:34 PM

"of course, if hillary had asked tough questions, she would have been accused of being hectoring, partisan, and of course, uncivil..."

And shrill; don't forget shrill...

Posted by: A Hermit
Date: January 29, 2007 5:46 PM

'"of course, if hillary had asked tough questions, she would have been accused of being hectoring, partisan, and of course, uncivil..."

And shrill; don't forget shrill...'

No, no you guys. Nagging. If Hillary had asked questions, she would have been nagging the general

Posted by: DougMN
Date: January 29, 2007 5:51 PM

Joe Klein and David Broder have never, ever, ever heard a senator specifying during their questioning period before? What planet are they from?

This is right in line with Howard Fineman's high school metaphor from last week, where he finally concluded he just doesn't like any of the Democratic presidential candidates. As if the nation and the world cared about his gut reaction. They probably would have liked to hear which one of those Democrats could do something to defeat the terrorists, balance the budget, rebuild New Orleans, and prepare us for the hardships of global warming.

What good does decades of experience and hard work do a reporter is he cannot rise above his petty likes and dislikes and the ridiculous little bigotries of his personal social circle?

Posted by: Berken
Date: January 29, 2007 5:58 PM

to follow up on berken's point, this is one of many areas where the business pages and the sports pages are far superior to the political pages.

to pick some of my favorite players and coaches, i don't know or care if i would "like" bernie williams, or tim duncan, or bill belichick, or cristiano ronaldo. i evaluate them by what they do in their job.

similarly, i don't know if i would like my two favorite business people in the universe, charlie munger and warren buffett (i suspect i would, but that's neither here nor there), any more than i know or care if i would like, say, steve jobs. doesn't matter a bit: i evaluate them by the performance of their businesses and their business decisions.

and that's, by and large, how the sports and business pages are run. why is it so hard for the political pages to offer the same perspective?

Posted by: howard
Date: January 29, 2007 6:13 PM

I think the larger point here is that in the few short weeks that Swampland has been on the web, Klein, Carney & krew have been repeatedly shown up by their supposed inferiors to the point where they're spending a lot of time defending their basic journalistic failings and their "ridiculous little bigotries", as berken so aptly puts it. Not to wave the blog flag overmuch, but on the Gandhi number line of first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win, I'd say we're at number three and making good progress toward number four. Not sure what "winning" would look like... maybe something like Marcy Wheeler's coverage of the Libby trial.

Posted by: Pinson
Date: January 29, 2007 6:26 PM

The substance Klein is made of is shit.

Posted by: David Ehrenstein
Date: January 29, 2007 6:29 PM

Does Klein have no experience in the business world or academia or a homeowners' association or any bureaucracy? The notion that the questions Hillary Clinton would ask in public hearing bear any resemblance to the questions she would ask in the kind of closed meeting where "decision makers," their staffs, advisors, and relevant experts engage in real fact-finding and debate is ludicrous.

Posted by: Gene O'Grady
Date: January 29, 2007 6:59 PM

"Surely Klein has a far better grasp of what Yglesias actually wrote than he's letting on."

I doubt that, Klein's is fairly stupid, Greg would have spell it out to Klein.

I'm still waiting on Broder to resond to Cheney's "waterboarding is a no-brainer" comment. Those four GOP senators capitulate completely on the torture issue, Broder is oblivious to anything but armchair pundit heresay as is Klein on the issues of SUBSTANCE.

Posted by: Cheryl
Date: January 29, 2007 7:20 PM

Is this yet another non-example of alleged Iraq war opponent Joe Klein writing something that actually opposes the war??!!

If Klein (or Broder) had tried to make a substantive point - perhaps about actual public policy in Iraq - whilst criticizing Senator Clinton, I might have been sympathetic. Instead, it reads like inside D.C. drivel.

Personally, I would have asked actual questions of the General, focusing on who the enemy is, what our goals are and how we intend to achieve them and in what timeframe. The questions would be designed not only to elicit information, but also to lay the groundwork for later questions (once this latest excalation turns into a fiasco yet again).

Posted by: Viceroy
Date: January 29, 2007 8:44 PM

Maybe Hillary, like most of the country, sees the revolving door of generals for what it is - a series of mulligans.

It's been four years - longer than our action against Germany, Japan, and Italy (countries with actual infrastructures, armies, strategies, as well as tactics). Good thing WWII wasn't just a war against, say, antisemitism. We'd still be there.

All of the appropriate questions have been asked and answered, and outcomes have become evident.

Now is the time for action. We've got three options: get out of Baghdad and accept the tough work with Iran and Syria; endorse an ongoing colonial presence; or glass the place.

Posted by: MasonMcD
Date: January 29, 2007 9:16 PM

Be kind.

Keep in mind Broder is not very astute nor smart and writing a regular column takes that sort of stuff. You really can't expect him to write about something worthwhile, he just can't do it.

I am guessing he knows this but just can't face that fact, do something about it, and still pay his bills. He's a tad old to change professions.

He does one thing well, but I am not sure you can amke much money at it. Google "panty sniffer broder"

Posted by: mw
Date: January 29, 2007 10:23 PM

Why didn't Broder in his 600 words just tell us what fucking happened at the Senate committee hearing ?? That's all I want to know.

It's like sports coverage where they give you the lifetime stats of both catchers and right fielders and then never tell you who won the game.

Fucking braindead ....

Posted by: Douglas Watts
Date: January 30, 2007 2:29 AM

I had a dream!

All of the DC pundits died in a horrible expired cocktails weenies tragedy.

Don't you hate it when you have to wake up from dreams like that?

Posted by: owlbear1
Date: January 30, 2007 3:10 AM

klein identified the blogs that dissed him by name and even bothered to diss them back. i have never seen a MSM pundit do such a thing before.

obviously, we are having an impact!

Posted by: mick
Date: January 30, 2007 8:37 AM

"Surely Klein would have preferred to see Broder use all his expertise and industry to explain to his readers why he thinks Hillary is right or wrong on the substantive questions that were discussed. Instead, Broder used the occasion to get in a cheap hit"

Broder couldn't do that. That would be expressing a political bias. For a collumnist to believe in anything regarding an issue is unforgivable bias. Personal bias though, that's just fine.

Posted by: Njorl
Date: January 30, 2007 9:27 AM

"...perhaps the most essential skills a President can have--intellectual curiosity and the ability to ask the right questions."

Am I the only one laughing at that line?

Posted by: AJ
Date: January 30, 2007 11:19 AM

Klein is definitely a man of substance. Just exactly what that substance might be is another matter entirely.

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