January 17, 2007 -- 6:01 PM EST // View Comments (3732) // Post a Comment

MCCAIN'S ASSAULT ON MOVEON.ORG FALLS APART RAPIDLY UNDER SCRUTINY.

Paging Wolf Blitzer: Please read this the next time you feel inclined to say that John McCain "likes straight talk."

Today MoveOn launched a TV ad slamming John McCain for his escalation plan for Iraq. As Atrios noted earlier today, the McCain campaign responded to the ad with a counter-attack on the organization.

But it turns out McCain's response (surprise!) is at best unproven and at worst completely false. It certainly doesn't constitute "straight talk." Here's what McCain said:

Danny Diaz, a McCain spokesperson, responded to MoveOn's ad by telling ABC News: "MoveOn.Org is an out-of-the-mainstream organization that has a long history of airing inflammatory material, even comparing the President to Hitler. It is not surprising that a liberal group opposed to military action after September 11th would attack Senator McCain's conservative values, as well as changing strategy and securing victory in Iraq."

Did MoveOn compare the President to Hitler, and did the group oppose military action after Sept. 11, as the McCain campaign is charging?

I emailed McCain's spokesman Diaz and asked for substantiation of these two charges. For the first one -- that MoveOn compared Bush to Hitler -- Diaz sent over a quote from a January 6, 2004 article in the Washington Post. It said that "videos" appeared on MoveOn's web site comparing Bush to Hitler as part of a contest for an anti-Bush TV ad. Here's what Diaz didn't quote but also appeared in the same article (via Nexis):

The Hitler spots were among more than 1,500 submissions; MoveOn members have selected 15 finalists. The Hitler ads "lost miserably," said Eli Pariser, the fund's campaign director. Pariser said: "Anyone in the public could submit an ad."...Voter Fund President Wes Boyd said the group's officials "deeply regret" that the ads "slipped through our screening process."

So, no reasonable person could continue to pretend that the organization itself made the Bush-Hitler comparison. One down.

What about the second charge -- that MoveOn opposed military action after Sept. 11?


To back that one up, Diaz pointed to a September 21, 2001 article in the Philadelphia Inquirer. It said MoveOn founder Joan Blades claimed her group had collected 30,000 signatures since the attacks on a statement calling for "justice, not escalating violence that would only play into the terrorists' hands."

This is ambiguous at best, barring a look at the full statement. I called MoveOn and they claimed adamantly that the group hadn't opposed military action. They sent over this statement, which they said was their most forceful petition on what the U.S. should do in responding to the attacks. Here's the key part:

We, the undersigned, citizens and residents of the United States of America and of countries around the world, appeal to the President of The United States, George W. Bush; to the NATO Secretary General, Lord Robertson; to the President of the European Union, Romano Prodi; and to all leaders internationally to use moderation and restraint in responding to the recent terrorist attacks against the United States. We implore the powers that be to use, wherever possible, international judicial institutions and international human rights law to bring to justice those responsible for the attacks, rather than the instruments of war, violence or destruction.

This is not outright opposition to military action. Rather, it's a request that the U.S. and other powers avoid war "wherever possible" in pursuit of the goal of "bringing to justice those responsible for the attacks," a goal that the group clearly endorses here. What's more, MoveOn founders Eli Pariser and Joan Blades strongly denied ever opposing military action as early as December of 2004. At the time they wrote in The New Republic that "we never in fact opposed targeted military action against Al Qaeda and its Taliban backers in Afghanistan." Barring better evidence, this second McCain charge could be true, but remains unproven.

So: The first McCain charge is completely, demonstrably false. The second: Unclear, but without question as yet unproven.

One thing is clear: This statement from the McCain camp is anything but straight talk. So McCain wouldn't like it or sanction it.

Right, Wolf?


-- Greg Sargent | Comments (3732) | Post a Comment


COMMENTS:

I'm all for flaying McCain and his spokesman for being misleading on both counts, but the first charge is not demonstrably false -- it is technically true.

Diaz says MoveOn has a history of "airing inflammatory material," including the Bush-Hitler ad. If we're going to parse words, he didn't say the organization itself compared Hitler to Bush; he's saying it "aired" the comparison. That's true. Misleading, given the context and totality of the statement, but it's true.

As for charge number 2 -- yeah, he lied on that one.

Posted by: Miggsathon
Date: January 17, 2007 6:33 PM

yes, very good point, though I would point out that they didnt say that move on "aired" the comparison, it said they "aired" inflammatory charges, "even comparing..." so they pretty clearly said move on made the comparison...

Posted by: Greg
Date: January 17, 2007 6:38 PM

Excuse me, but how is holding a competition the same as "airing inflammatory material". I take 'airing' to mean buying ad time on a medium such as tv or radio.

Posted by: gtash
Date: January 17, 2007 6:41 PM

Miggsathon

"Airing" material means broadcasting it over public airwaves. Simply having something posted to a website is not "airing." McCain's charge is categorically false.

BTW, this is another variation on the canard of attacking a blog for something somebody says in one of its comment threads, pretending that the thread comment is a statement by the blogger him/herself.

Posted by: jim
Date: January 17, 2007 6:43 PM

I strongly disagree with miggsathon. I remember going through and voting on hundreds of ads for Moveon.org. The submissions came from everywhere. The rules were pretty broad - had to be 30 seconds or less, no obsenity or obsence language. I vaguely remember the Hilters ones and know they did not make the cut. You had to be a member to go onto the web site to vote for them. They were not for general consumption. Moveon.org NEVER AIRED any Hilter ones, either on television or on the web.

Posted by: XL
Date: January 17, 2007 6:49 PM

The truth doesn't make a dime's worth of difference to the True Believers.
To paraphrase Keats, that is all ye know and all ye need to know about supportes of Bush and McCain and the policy toward Iraq.
When will ye ever learn that?
Go forth and mis-perceive no more.

Posted by: Leo
Date: January 17, 2007 7:06 PM

Yeah, sorry to say but Miggs is simply incorrect. Even assuming that "airing" doesn't necessarily mean "broadcasting", as opposed to simply a public discussion, the fact is that the statement clearly states that MoveOn compared Bush to Hitler. In any case, let Mr. Straight Talk try to parse it some other way -- I'd love to hear that explanation.

Posted by: Glenn
Date: January 17, 2007 7:24 PM

Hmmm..I'm surprised the McCain camp didn't come out and state the big evil Soros/MoveOn connection. Hey, doesn't McCain want to have dialogue with Dobson? Focus on Family is a friggin' fringe radical group to me. McCain's camp erred in stating that the ad was aired.

McCain/Lieberman '08
"Does integrity really matter?"

Posted by: taters
Date: January 17, 2007 7:36 PM

I'd just like to point out that the first claim by the McCain spokesman is not "demonstrably false" because it never said that MoveOn supported the Hitler ad. All it said is that MoveOn has a long history of airing inflammatory material, even comparing the President to Hitler." Well, MoveOn did indeed air the inflammatory Hitler material, whether by accident or not. That's all the McCain people said it did, so they are not saying anything false on that score.

Posted by: Doug Chamille
Date: January 17, 2007 7:36 PM

We can debate whether MoveOn bears any responsibility for the Hitler ad, but I think Greg's larger point is that the "straight talk express" is being disingenuous in the extreme. He's right, and his point stands.

Posted by: woot
Date: January 17, 2007 7:43 PM

re Miggsathon and others claiming MoveOn "aired" inflammatory et cetera. Let's say I posted something like "Jews are Responsible for all the wrong in the world". Would that make Josh anti-semitic?

Assuming that you did feel that by posting such a comment here I am somehow infecting Josh with my putative anti-semitism, if this post was then flagged and taken down by him as soon as humanly possible, would that make any difference?

Get real, folks. This kind of truthyness went out of fashion after the last election. McCain is lying.

Posted by: Tom O
Date: January 17, 2007 8:12 PM

As can be seen, even from the above comments, he successfully steered the debate to MoveOn.org, rather than him.

While everyone is talking about whether MoveOn said this, or aired that, the original discussion evaporated and became "old news."

Posted by: Alan
Date: January 17, 2007 8:15 PM

I think a better way to go is for Moveon to put together some ads that do the same thing.

Start off and say John McCain believes that an organization is responsible for and sanctions all actions of all of its members.

In that vein, John McCain and group X believe Y.

Hit him with every loose second order association -the worse possible stuff that anyone that he's ever talked in front of, that any member of any group that he's ever belonged to - in fact tag him with all kinds of stuff that McCain is responsible.

See how he likes it.

Posted by: Stlinquirer
Date: January 17, 2007 8:39 PM

"it is technically true."

No, it is clearly, technically false--here isn't any colorable way to parse it except as the claim that MoveOn compared Bush to Hitler. You can see this most clearly by looking at what McCain's people wrote:

(1) "MoveOn.Org...has a long history of airing inflammatory material, even comparing the President to Hitler."

And at what they didn't write:

(2) "MoveOn.Org...has a long history of airing inflammatory material comparing the President to Hitler."

or

(3) MoveOn.Org...has a long history of airing inflammatory material, some of which compares the President to Hitler."

There just isn't any reasonable way to read (1) except as sayin MoveOn (and not the material they aired) compared Bush to Hitler.

Posted by: "Q" the Enchanter
Date: January 17, 2007 8:42 PM

Doug Chamille, did you even read the other comments? They did not "air" any such ad.

Greg, you said, "Barring better evidence, this second McCain charge could be true, but remains unproven."

I'd point out that it's incumbent upon McCain's people to come up with this evidence, not upon MoveOn to refute something that never happened.

Posted by: ohiomeister
Date: January 17, 2007 8:42 PM

Can I borrow this?

McCain/Lieberman '08
"Does integrity really matter?"

http://www.paulbeard.org/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/01/17/bumper-stickers/

Posted by: paul
Date: January 17, 2007 9:38 PM

I argued this discussion at the time it came out. I completely destroyed the syncophants who were claiming that moveon "aired" a Hitler ad, just as some of you are destroying those who are repeating that garbage today. The same liars and idiots are pushing this once again. What a bunch of hogwash and what a waste of time. Stop lying, people. You can't be that stupid so you have to be lying.

Mr. McCain, clear yourself from this pile of horse manure, or live by it. It's your choice. There is no middle line to choose from.

Posted by: Kitt
Date: January 17, 2007 9:40 PM

All fair points, though I'd still give Diaz something resembling a Clintonian out on the first one. The definition of the verb "air" and the significance of that comma between "material" and "even" is debatable. But whatever. Attack the bastards anyway. Everyone knows what they meant to convey, and it's false. The rest barely matters.

Posted by: Miggsathon
Date: January 17, 2007 11:59 PM

Thanks for demonstrating that MoveOn are not leftists, rather that they are quite willing to march with American imperialism - the Bush version no less - against its enemies. I won't claim this to be a surprise, but simply that your careful delineation of their politics is worthy of thanks.

Posted by: romat
Date: January 18, 2007 12:35 AM

At nearly the same time as the random video was submitted to the MoveOn contest, on the official Republican National Committee (RNC) website was posted a photoshopped picture depicting Kerry with various Nazis and swastiikas. IOKIYAR.

Posted by: Dale145
Date: January 18, 2007 1:04 AM

McCain is dead meat. As the campaign gets going, his support will shrivel. He will never convince the fruitcakes and criminals in charge of the Republican Party that he's really one of them.

As for his attack against MoveOn, while it's important to set the record straight, it really can only help him, as MoveOn is widely known as a left-of-center outfit. Of course, as usual with the right wing scum, he doesn't answer the charges, he just attacks the messenger.

What difference does it make WHO is making the points against McCain's ludicrous position on Iraq? What are his answers to the charges? That the people making them are unsavory? So what?

Posted by: LongTom
Date: January 18, 2007 5:54 AM

The Bush administration and the Republican membership has irrefutably distorted and twisted our system of laws and our Constitution. Hitler manipulated the citizens of an entire nation. The methods used in that endeavor bear a certain resemblance to what we are witnessing today.

The attempt to modify the social fabric of a nation via the presentation of a number of falsehoods is an undeniable feature of what the Bush administration has undertaken. Not unlike Nazi Germany, there is also a religious context to this that is inescapable.

There are essential features of a comparison between the Bush administration and Hitler or the Third Reich that actually do bear examination for their usage of similar tactics. Central to the comparison is the expression of extremism practiced by individuals in a position of power that is broadly in conflict with a majority of the population. That was true in Nazi Germany in 1939 and is true in the United States today. The details and the degree of expression of extremism may vary but the fundamentals are identical.

Posted by: thepeoplechoose
Date: January 18, 2007 6:42 AM

Saint John McCain - the patron saint of liars.

Posted by: Joe
Date: January 18, 2007 6:59 AM

So, once MoveOn once briefly aired a Hitler ad. Compare that with McCain bombing Viet Namese women and children.

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr
Date: January 18, 2007 7:35 AM

Who cares? This is an awful lot of energy parsing a piffle.

Put those good brains to use figuring out how to fix this mess.

The enemy, to start, is not McCain or Bush; it's murderous religious texts--found in all religions of "the book."

Posted by: Gene Touchet
Date: January 18, 2007 9:49 AM

If you have to parse what McCain means by airing, that's the definition of Unstraight Talk.

Posted by: underwhelm
Date: January 18, 2007 10:40 AM

So, no reasonable person could continue to pretend that the organization itself made the Bush-Hitler comparison.

True, but sadly, that gives Republicans the loophole they need to do just that.

Posted by: Gregory
Date: January 18, 2007 10:44 AM

John McCain is a fucking whore.

Posted by: itsbenj
Date: January 18, 2007 10:55 AM

Mr Stratight Talk Exxpress strikes again

Maybe the media will finally end this McCain as a "straight talking" candidate narrative now that he has flip flopped from a position of supporting full campaign lobbying disclosures to just the opposite in an effort to pander to the Religious Right

John McCain "Any which way the wind blows"

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/18/mccain-caves-on-lobbying/

Posted by: lib4
Date: January 18, 2007 10:55 AM

and romat - what the hell are you talking about? getting rid of the taliban wasn't "imperialism"! afghanis hated the taliban, for the most part. nearly everyone there lived in fear of their tyranny and violence. they raped and pillaged the country viciously. a lot of "superleftist" like romat have always wanted to think of moveon as being basically the same thing as ANSWER or whatever. i knew nader supporters who were bewildered that moveon wasn't pushing his crap. duh, moveon was brought into existence to combat the crusade to impeach clinton! of course they and every sane person in the US wanted whoever did 9/11 to be taken out of existence. too bad Generalissimo el-Busho screwed the whole thing up so badly and now we have an afghanistan with BOTH a huge huge poppy crop AND a resurgent taliban. yay.

Posted by: itsbenj
Date: January 18, 2007 11:01 AM

McCain/Lieberman '08
"Does integrity really matter?"

Israel's national treasures

Posted by: Frank
Date: January 18, 2007 11:18 AM

McCain has harnessed the political winds big time. His whiplashing efforts to replace that empty cowboy hat in the white house is embarrasing to watch. He gives new meaning to the word "integrity".

I'am amused about how often the term "lack of experience" is used when characterizing Obama's bid for the presidency. Show me the metrics on experience. It's as if Bush never existed as a yardstick.
This is the current MSM's sublime ignorance in action.

Posted by:
Date: January 18, 2007 11:33 AM

Every time McCain opens his mouth, he inserts his foot! He will NEVER win the nomination. He says stupid things daily, that are either lies or outright panderings. He's despicable, and people know it. Going down in flames...

Posted by: Harriett
Date: January 18, 2007 2:44 PM

Just received this from the McCain campaign:

"Yesterday, Moveon.org began attacking Senator John McCain for his steadfast support of achieving victory in Iraq.

Moveon.org is an ultra liberal group that is known for running negative attack ads against Republicans. Their long list of negative and mostly false ads is well documented. In fact, they even went as far as to compare President Bush to Adolf Hitler and opposed military action after September 11."

No parsing of words there. Be careful. Something someone posts on your website = YOU said it!

Posted by: John
Date: January 18, 2007 4:29 PM

I wish Moveon would go away. Their ham-fisted ads generally do more harm than good, in my opinion.

You know those smug Mac ads where the Apple guy pretends to be a friendly, "regular" guy, but in fact he's an arrogant prick? Most Moveon ads remind me of that attitude.

I have a friend who's a Moveon-type guy. He prefaces most of his personal opinions with the phrase: "Anyone with any brains knows that..." He's a good representative for why many moderates hate liberals worse than they hate conservatives. Moveon is another representative for the same mindset.

Posted by: Mark F.
Date: January 19, 2007 9:27 AM

It looks like John @4:29 on Jan 18 has the goods on attack #1 to mitigate any remaining concerns such as Miggsathon advanced that it arguably wasn't technically a lie. No argument anymore I think (at least assuming John'ss email s genuine).

Posted by: Crust
Date: January 19, 2007 5:35 PM

Crust -- you're right. If McCain's office sent the email, no more Clintonian parsing is possible. They're lying liars.

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