Hey Greg, congrats on passing the century mark for comments yesterday. I think John Solomon may have hit a nerve, and Debbie Howell might have some 'splainin' to do if she was capable of doing her job.

For the piece here, I think you nailed something very important. Collins, Warner and Nelson are certainly "centrists" when referring to the political beliefs of the 100 senators. Honestly, If I had to name the twenty senators who sit between a filibuster one way or the other, all would make the list (along with the other Nelson, Snowe, Hagel, etc.).

That said, it doesn't make their position "centrist" in the scheme of national political opinion, but the distinction is never noted. The median opinions of American voters do not always align with the median opinions in either the House or Senate, but this fact is largely ignored by the media. Even worse, several reliable republican votes have moved substantially leftward on the issue to the point that Reid-Levin is almost certainlythe "centrist" position on Iraq, even if Warner-Nelson is the position of those who typically represent the center on other issues.

For what it's worth, I noticed that some Congressional Democrats are beginning to understand this silly dynamic and use it to their own advantage. Their "centrist" position on reducing unwanted pregnancies is actually the standard liberal position where they emphasize the aspects that are superficially considered more conservative, and suddenly get to claim "the center" without actually shifting course. Still, it's a silly way to paraphrase important issues into useless categories, and I'm glad you picked up on it.

hey j, thanks for commenting all the time, I appreciate it.

yeah, as you say, the key is the fact that the word no longer refers to anything having to do with, you know, what the public thinks!

It's basically, here are 5,000 insiders. the opinions of the left third of them constitute "left wing" opinion, the center third "centrism," and...etc

it's very dispiriting. I don't know how you change it

Change may be slow, but I think blog in general may be useful for changing some of the dynamic, as are alternative news sources (The Onion and The Daily Show come to mind). First, you need someone willing to speak up and point out that the insider perspetive is just not representative of the whole (see also Atrios et al. vs. The Note). I'd count this blog amongst those that do the job. Then, you need to turn the most devastating weapon possible on those whose egos are artificially inflated by traditional media narratives: scorn. People are almost too willing to see those near the top taken down a notch, even when they don't deserve it, but in the cases where they do, it's fantastic. Using Lieberman and McCain as the posterboys for false centrism, someone needs to point out their inconsistencies (HM does this all the time, thankfully), and then it's up to the rest of us to point out that they're not just wrong, but deeply unserious and worthy of mockery. It'll take a while, but watch for McCain to be brutalized by this dynamic over the next couple of years.

"This is just writing on autopilot." Indeed. I have long contended that many of our problems with the MSM result not so much from ideological bias (though some do, as Solomon's example shows) as they result from sheer laziness. This stupid headline is a good example of the latter.

but in Solomons case laziness compounds his ideological slants of the news

Thanks for being alert on this. My objections to this kind of shorthand are that it 1) obscures from readers the substantive issues and 2) facilitates the the labeling of politicians so journalists can get on with what they most like to do -- report on politics as a horse race among competing points of view and contending candidates. It's a hard habit to break, but I do think it's a habit, a learned language that has its biases but is not a deliberate attempt to impose a partisan view. As a former journalist, I see it as part of a cramped effort to communicate complex issues in terse and simple ways to compensate for the presumed inattention of readers and viewers.

I don't think authors Carl and Jeff attempted to label the as-yet-unwritten plan.

I think instead that the authors are saying that the senators intend to draft a proposal that is centrist.

Slow news day, huh?

I think the phrase "centrist proposal" in the headline is supposed to mean "proposal by centrists"; this interpretation is also suggested by the first sentence of the article.

Yeah, the political spectrum is skewed. Hell, I even remember when Reagen wasn't a saint. That was before he ran up record deficits and won the cold war with one hand tied behind his back. The media will have a tough time rehabilitating this varmit running it now.

Bill, ehowe, point taken. but come on -- the reflexive tendency I'm pointing to here is the paper's automatic labeling of something to the "right" of the Reid-Levin proposal as "centrist," when the Reid-Levin proposal is squarely in line with public opinion, even possibly to the right of it. Isn't it obvious that this knee-jerk labeling is ridiculous and entirely arbitrary? And isn't this a glaring example of it?

Oh for Christ's sake--if a bill authored by Chuck Hagel, whom conservative scorecard groups rate in the high 90%, and Joe Biden, the Senator from teh Credit Card industry, isn't centrist then nothing is. This isn't "centrism", it's political ass-covering (if I were one of those foul-mouthed vituperative blogger types, I'd call it a circle-jerk). and I don't for a moment believe the authors of this article don't know this as well as anyone else..

Er--Who writes headlines? Not everyone on this thread seems to realize that it's not the reporters: it's the copy desk. And (a) they're rushed, and (b) the hole they've got to stick stuff in is tiny. As a result, headlines are stupid as often as not. The problem lies with people who think that headlines should be a precise summary; they can't be, and never will be. They're come-ons to buy the paper; and presumbably those who are drawn in by the headline actually want to read the article.

As for Greg's analysis of the article, it's reaching for something to criticize. Maybe it's clear to Greg that "toughly worded" is a code for "left"--it isn't to me. Besides, dammit, if it is, it's a *compliment*; how long has it been since a "left" proposal has had "tough" attached to it? How about *thanking* the NYT for the favor?

David, I spent a few years on a couple of different copy desks and while (a) and (b) are certainly true, the slot editors I worked with were pretty careful to check headlines for accuracy. And neither of the desks I worked on was at a top-tier paper.

I think the article treats the politicians themselves as values, instead of the language of a proposal.

What I think is interesting is the contrast between the obvious emphasis on individual personalities (the Senators each have something different to say, even if they are only muddying the waters) and the heavily organizational or corporate aspect of this personality cult. Maybe this isn't a contrast at all. There just is no continuous sense of policy, as distinct from politicians. It is not so much believed that any policy we have heard about will really succeed. Rather, the Bush Administration is burning down, starting at the top. So we go to the next "company" level, just like so many American companies have done. When there is uncertainty at the top, or a legal problem for the CEO, decisions are made through other officers. It is more a case of "Old Soandso will take care of things."

It is fear, because the Democrats are not saying, and are not going to say, what happens after withdrawal.

This is the yawning gap, and there are many other things that seem poised to go sour once we pass through it.

There is no winning. Not that we want to or don't want to. There. Is. No. Do we declare defeat? SUIT YOURSELF. The defeat is written on a culture brutalized by official lying, with war as an excuse.

We withdraw - and then we start a diplomatic offensive the like of which has never been seen. We're going to have to, simply to survive with half of "our lifestyle intact", because we no longer have the right to call the nations of the world to help. We might get it back, but that's going to call for foreign policy moves that Dr. J would admire, and if the Democrats in Congress see this they're giving no sign.

Europe is holding out a hand of friendship.

South America is ready to realize important structural synergies between South American labor and industry and American capacity. They need to send their workers to the US to train over generations, in order that we may determine together the right way for them to industrialize without contributing too much to environmental destruction.

Europe and the US would like to conserve fossil fuels - but before this can happen, we would have to negotiate air pollution controls with China. Even if the current rules say the Chinese can buy themselves years of freedom with carbon credits, this must be revisited (despite the bad name the US has in almost all international negotiations!).

The problem the US is going to face is the loss of importance of military power. In the years to come, our "ability to project power" and "deterrent" will simply be a matter of pride, like the Russians', at the end.

The US has lost the technological edge because it is going to lose it. The crown jewels of American industry, like the fancy weapons of the Pentagon in Iraq, turn out to be pretentious fakes - the iPhone is already far behind what is available in Asia.

Over the next 50 years, we'd be better off dedicating ourselves to being the most honest nation in the world, and the most fair, and presenting ourselves to the world as people who value justice at least as much as the product of THEIR workmen's hands.

greg, in the big scheme of things, you are, of course, absolutely correct, but in terms of the particulars here, i'll live with the sloppy usage of "centrist" in return for having the bush escalation labelled as the "rightist" option, which is, in fact, accurate!

I think the phrase "centrist proposal" in the headline is supposed to mean "proposal by centrists"; this interpretation is also suggested by the first sentence of the article.

I figured that. Centrists always make rightist proposals.

I really get tired of these RADICAL AMERICAN CENTRISTS trying to paint their positions a moderate... How centered can they be when all of them are right wingers to FAAAAR RIGHT WINGNUTS?

There is nothing moderate or centered about these whackjobs. And yet American voters fall for these faux "centrist" labels like they are realistic?

We saw this during the Conn. senate campaign.

The corporate media portrayed Ned Lamont as left wing fringe, even though his views were mainstream.

The corporate media portrayed Joe Lieberman as centrist, mainstream, sensible middle, even though his views reflect the most extreme neocon position.

Centrist in Washigton means opinions of the Washington Post editorial page which is neocon in foreign policy.

Sarge - Having a media critic of your caliber writing at a premiere and highly trafficked website is great news for all Americans.

You are what the TPM empire was missing. Not to say that they weren't great before, but now TPM will be unstoppable.

Anyone know if the headline made it to the print version? I can cope, somewhat, with a bit of autopilot on wire copy feed. (Even then, 'Centrist Senators to offer proposal on Iraq' takes up no more space.)

Then they wonder why more and more people are resorting to the internet for getting their news. Says alot about the quality of the schools of jurnalism in this country.

The most charitable interpretation is that it was simply a misplaced modifier: "Centrist Senators to Offer Proposal on Iraq" is a perfectly respectable and arguably even accurate headline (depending on how exactly you decide which senators are "centrist").

Characterizing the content of a proposal you haven't seen is, of course, irresponsible in someone who pretends to be a journalist. And I wonder about the current practice of defining the "center" not by where the American people are, but by drawing a line halfway between the most extreme leftist you can see (the *real* extreme leftists have no microphones, of course) and the most extreme rightist you can see (often Limbaugh or O'Reilly). By that standard the majority of the American people have been radical leftists for some time now.

"This perfectly illustrates just how devoid of meaning and divorced from public opinion the use of the word "centrist" has become."

On the contrary, as the paper of record for the liberal wing of the U.S. capitalist class, it shows that the Times news dept (and presumably publishers) believe that a even a "strongly worded" statement, however nonbinding and without money involved, would be too much in this context. The use of "centrist" is a way for the Times to try to legitimize a point of view and de-legitimze others. It has a lot of meaning, and one aspect of its use is to influence the public, since the standard American political aphorism is that the truth lies in the middle (isn't that what journalists tell us, too?). On the contrary, it's the Greg Sargents of this world who don't get it, who actually think that "public opinion" as displayed by polls (or even elections) plays some fundamental role in the substance of ruling policy and even nonbinding resolutions.

While regularly amused by certain things in the Times' coverage of politics (notably Patrick Healy's "news" stories about the presidential candidates that routinely repeat unthinking inside-the-Beltway conventional wisdom as fact), I was even more amused by the New York Times print edition ad that came up when I viewed this post...

romat said:
"On the contrary, it's the Greg Sargents of this world who don't get it, who actually think that "public opinion" as displayed by polls (or even elections) plays some fundamental role in the substance of ruling policy and even nonbinding resolutions."

That's a pretty arrogant comment. Besides, I think you and Mr. Sargent are talking about much the same thing -- the media, language, public opinion, etc. Your hostility is a bit baffling.

If the game here is to take umbrage with people "who don't get it" then I'd suggest you step outside of your own glass house about the NYT being the "paper of record" for the "liberal wing of the US capitalist class." Sheesh, where to begin...?!

Very well put, Greg. More commentators need to start, and keep, making this very important point.

Now that Ol' Ben has his reelection secured he can begin to posture his mind..

If not for the absurdness of Millionaire Ricketts, his election opponent, who did his best to be as far out on the Right-pandering limb as possible one would forget that Ol' Ben is just a Democrat in name. He just the "Democrat" wing of the Republican plutocracy here in Nebraska. It's safe for him to come out with that proposal now that the rest of his Republican brethren have come out of the closet with their Me-tooism selves.

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