Gallop?

yes, you're right, good catch...maybe an intentional error, given the topic?

What scandals to learn from? The question itself was totally slanted. Has he learned from Monica? Well he hasn't gotten caught if he is still having little flings. He also hasn't prevaricated under oath.
Other than that, all scandals were debunked so nothing to learn from.

I was annoyed watching this exchange.

i am convinced that the only sexual satisfaction tweety, margaret carlson, et al get is when they reminisce about their glory days of sniffing out a cum-stained gap dress.

tweety's obsession with the clintons' personal sex life is disturbing. he literally drools and he gets visibly excited while he yammers on and on and on with his fantasies of how they act.

Carlson was all giggly about Fred Thompson, too. Didn't they used to date?

Matthews earns it for suggesting that Bill's sex life is an "uncomfortable, unsavory topic" -- while raising the subject anyway.

It's a subject Matthews raises constantly, as Bob Somerby has been documenting at www.thedailyhowler.com. Matthews' obsession with the Clintons' sex life seems downright pathological to me.

Well, it's important to remember that Bill Clinton is the only politician who has ever had extramarital sex. Republic Party politicians never do that sort of thing, so it's a legitimate issue. Even though Bill isn't actually running for political office, it still reflects on Democrats in general.

Also, I'm sure Margaret wouldn't have said that Hillary Clinton is the only person in the world who thinks that Bill no longer does it with other women if she didn't have proof for that assertion. And it's important because it reflects on Hillary's judgment. I mean, what if she thought she could look into Vladimir Putin's soul and know what was there? It could affect the national interest.

So I don't see what you're carping about here.

yeah, that's true. somberby has documented that in impressive detail. I believe somerby refers to him as a "nut" regularly -- understandable, given lunacy like this

While it is clear that Bill Clinton was not a good husband there is every indication that he was a good father. It is clear to me that Bill Clinton was hurting because of the pain he had invoked on his daughter with his wayward ways, apparently not foreseeing this as a consequence of his bad behavior.

Frankly, in this day and age, if Bill still had his zipper problem the women would be coming forward in confession. Since that hasn't happened I say the evidence is that Bill has taken care of his zipper problem.

Have there been any reports of Bill actually fooling around? If there were, I would expect the tabloids to be full of them. I doubt Bill could get away with blowing a kiss to another woman at this point.

Is Carlson implying she knows something that nobody (or everybody) else does? If not, she should shut up about it.

He's still the same person, but it's not going to hurt him . . .

Jeebus, is Carlson really as stupid as that? It didn't "hurt" him before. Americans (except for fools) never cared about his marriage, and they don't care now. Why can these people not understand this?

What they're really talking about with these poll questions is Hilary, of course. Bill is not hurt by his eye for women, but Hilary most definitely is. I hear it all the time, even from non-wingnuts: if she were really a good woman, he wouldn't find it necessary to stray.

That's what they want out there.

Carlson and Thompson sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G, or at least Margaret did some M-O-O-N-I-N-G over the Fred. In the real world this would make her opinions suspect, but not to Tweety.

I thoroughly expect that this fair and balanced Matthews crew will provide the same amount of scrutiny and giggly levity towards Newt's or Rudy's admitted infidelities.

Oh wait, I forgot, those guys are manly Republicans! Never mind.

Yes, Somersby always is always excellent on this topic.

BTW, I love that 71 percent thought Bill Clinton was a good president. Hehehe

atrios has just posted about her link to thompson:

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_03_25_atrios_archive.html#117526517747781301

It's a toss up which was the more painful to watch. This or the Dennis Miller appearence on the Daily Show this week. Miller's first try at substance "Nancy Pelosi is so ugly" or words to that effect. How many pills did this guy take when he hurt his arm?

Where to begin? Why even wade into this inane conversation? Speaking as a lifelong Dem. who is not too crazy about either Bill or Hillary (good parents, bad for our party), we have yet to own up to what the rest of the country already instinctively knows: She only stayed with him for political gain. And once she loses, I'll bet they split up. This is in no way to defend Matthews (who is a perfect symbol for the problems), or Carlson (who is usually at least OK - and, look, she's probably right in this instance), but I sure as hell are not looking forward to another four years of their marital psychodrams, which, you may recall if we are to be honest here, cost us meaningful health care reform.

I find it very disturbing that so many Democrats don't see something fundamentally wrong with two families controlling the White House for as many as 28 years.

Greg,

Great post. The Conventional Wisdom memo on Bill Clinton must have gone out, because it seems this is becoming a common theme among Beltway pundits. This is, of course, inevitable with a Hillary Clinton bid for the presidency. The Clinton campaign has to figure out how to deal with it or ignore it, but it ain't going away.

Some focus on Bill's as a "first gentleman" is necessary and proper insofar as how much of a role he might have in a Hillary Clinton administration. We're obviously in unchartered territory here.

But here's the thing: Given how manifestly unpopular Bush is and how much Bush's failure as president evokes positive memories of Bill Clinton, I'm wondering whether some of this focus on Bill might actually help Hillary. Compared with Bush, Bill Clinton looks like Lincoln, and many voters may be happy to have him back in the White House helping Hillary.

Finally, with Clinton as "first gentleman," it's not like Edith Wilson running the country when President Wilson was ill, or even Bill Clinton making Hillary a key adviser. In those cases, the spouses really had no public standing. Bill, however, is a former two-term popular president who probably could have been elected a third time had he been able to run again. I think most voters understand that (1) Bill and Hillary have pretty much like views and (2) if they elect Hillary, they get Bill back.

Whether that is good or bad for the country is beside the point. I think many voters may warm to that possibility even as the Beltway pundits freak out about it.

As I said, this is unchartered territory, so who knows? But back to your point: With all the serious things the pundits could be talking about in regard to Bill's role in a Hillary presidency, they go for the sex stuff.

Thanks for the post.

That's rich.

Margaret Carlson commenting on the sex life of Bill Clinton in the same show that she commented on the presidential prospects of Fred Thompson, the man she used to date and that was reportedly involved with another woman at the same time.

For the record, her commentary featured classic hits such as "He does look like the dad. He has everything that Pat says. He`s handsome, he`s charming . . ." "And, you know, he`s smart. He`s articulate. He knows his lines. He can hit his mark." and "The theme song of Republicans should be 'Some Day My Prince Will Come,' and they`re waiting and they`re hoping. And so Fred Thompson is not late at all. His moment is here."

I didn't hear any reference to whether Fred changed his ways.

Carlson is a twit who has earned her living maligning the Clintons.

Senator Clinton should charge Matthews with stalking and harassing her. I catch his Hillary obsession at the end of his program while waiting for Countdown. He usually works a venomous anti-Hillary remark in while smirking about his cleverness. Methinks the cowardly lion only picks on women nonstop who are not at liberty to return the favor.

"I hear it all the time, even from non-wingnuts: if she were really a good woman, he wouldn't find it necessary to stray."

Gee, it's reassuring to know people still like to blame the wife when a man fools around. Progress? What progress?

Yes, the press is shameful. Still, as a Democrat assessing the Democratic candidates for president, it has occurred to me that candidates other than Hillary will have the advantage that the press will not be tripping over itself to find a possible candidate's-spouse-is-cheating story for them. Rage against it, but it is a fact, and a burden other candidates don't bear.

For all we know, the Clintons have an open relationship. Who cares?

She only stayed with him for political gain. And once she loses, I'll bet they split up.

MaxGowan

How dull my little life must be! I have no insight at all into the marital life of Bill and Hilary.
Max, was it something Hilary said to you, or is it just the intimate glimpses of the Clinton's married life someone of your exalted status is bound to have. Or maybe Bill asked you if you knew any likely lasses while you 'n The Big Dog were hangin' out?
Gosh, I wish I had your kind of inside stuff! It's almost Republican in its infallibility.

And its got a bad "smell"

Yeah, it's pretty appalling to see one of Thompson's ex-girlfriends on TV extolling his virtues as a candidate, even going so far as to call him "handsome." This might not be that big a deal right now, since Thompson hasn't decided to run yet, but what if he does?

Greg, you should really get NBC on the record and find out if they plan on allowing one of Thompson's exes to offer commentary on the presidential race shoud he decide to join it. From her display last night, it's pretty obvious she's in no way an unbiased observer.

P.S. Fred Thompson is "handsome!" I swear to god, didn't he play the villain in Ghostbusters 2, Vigo the Carpathian?!

You have a nice day, too, Mooser.

Sorry but she is just speaking the truth. Bill has a problem keeping his zipper up and he probably still does. Period. He was a great President. He would have been an epic President if he didn't abuse an intern in the White House. Whether the Hillary campaign wants to admit that it is true. Sex addicts are hard to cure. Is it a distraction? You bet. But it is something she has to deal with and the press (and the public) has every right to discuss. Personally, I don't think we need the distraction. But then again, I think both Gore and Obama are much better candidates.

Well, congratulations to whoever wanted this thing to get a lot of play, because they even got some on talkingpointsmemo.com. Great job, and kudos to all!

I'll say it - Bill Clinton's sex life DOES matter. Do you think most Americans care about Health Care policy? How about immigration, or tax reform? No, most Americans pick up copies of Us Weekly that feature a bald Britney Spears with her clit showing.

Bill's sex life does matter because THAT is what everyone will be focused on. News flash: we're a society of social degenerates with nothing better to do. How have you people not gotten this memo?

It's a free market, and the press gives us what we want. And we're all very stupid. Figure it out.

It should get play. Clinton's handlers can't expect it not to. Come to think of it, thay probably have 213 nuanced scenarios that they are currently polling before they answer. Enough of the Clintons. She doesn't deserve it anyway. It's time for a change (from Bush *and* Clinton) presidencies. The country needs to move on and when Bill gets caught again (which you know he will), once again, his weaknesses will take center stage over more important national issues. I, for one, have had it with that!

Matthews low point has to be his 'frat boy' gushing over Bush's 'package', as Matthews descirbed W's 'too toght in the crotch' flight suit during 'Mission Accomplished'.

Matthews has always been impressed with faux macho guys, Tom Delay, Giuliani etc. Makes one wonder if Tweety has some 'closet' issues about his own sexuality.

Apparently you don't live in the tristate area, or you would know from the many people who have seen it firsthand that Bill has continued to be a "feline" hunter. He only stopped the overt activity when Hilary actively launched her presidential campaign. But until then it was blatant.

Greg - The real story here is Margaret's comments about Thompson, without mentioning her past relationship w/ him.
Track that story that Atrios linked.

We need to silence this kind of buffoons.

I am so on overload regarding the media's nonstop nasty gossip about the Clintons, I--and others--may vote for Senator Clinton to spite the Carlsons and Matthews. Remember Fazio? The last media lie about Senator Clinton made me reach for my checkbook to contribute to her campaign. So there, Chris and Margaret.

Max Gowan - we have yet to own up to what the rest of the country already instinctively knows: She only stayed with him for political gain

You have a nice day, too, Mooser.

But you didn't respond. Can you please tell us your source for this information. Inside knowledge? Mind reading? I know of marriages that have had "troubles" and have stayed together with no politics involved at all.

Bruce - Bill abused Monica? How do you know Bill is a "sex addict"?

Gossip? This isn't gossip. Bill has a serious philandering problem. Whether you think that's important or not is immaterial. It is a real distraction.

Thompson is handsome? I guess, if you like the sneering, fat, balding daddy-figure type. But then, she is married to that perpetual adolescent Tucker. Talk about airing your psycho-sexual laundry in public. Methinks Maggie is exhibiting buyer's remorse in a wholly inappropriate public forum. And she has the gumption to psychoanalyze Hillary. God save us from the puerile musings of the immoral media whore elite.

You people need to be a little more sympathetic with these commentators. It is an uncomfortable, unsavory topic, but still "fun" because this IS Chris's sex life.
Have a little sympathy.

Rambuncle - do you truly believe that Bill doesn't have a problem? C'mon...how about the cigars Bill used on Monica outside the oval office? How about Belinda Stronach, Gennifer Flowers, Patricia Duff, Denise Rich, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. Why should Hillary be in the pole position? Because she's a victim? C'mon.... Al Gore is so much more of a better candidate.

You have a nice day, too, Mooser.

You'd be surprised how nice my day will be. I worry only about my own marriage, (till death, or a whim of my wife's, do us part) it takes quite a load off my mind.

Relative to other news I've read recently, I wonder if it's only Mrs. Gibbons that thinks Gov. Gibbons has changed. I'd imagine she doesnt mind what he does since she's busy steering U. S. taxpayers money toward earmarks for defense contractors at 35,000 dollars a whack. Small wonder that the focus was and is on Bill and Hillary Clinton's personal relationship and real estate development investment hopes of more than a decade ago, when on the eve of the gubernatorial election in Nevada Mr. Gibbons was enjoying what he apparently interpreted as a sure thing "gift" of a very drunk club dancer in a bar, from his unsavory drinking buddies, whom he proceeded to paw, molest, and warn in an intimidating way in a parking garage he followed her to as she left the bar. As usual it's expected by the media and it's unbalanced "operatives" that democrats should appear and remain unnaturally devoted and wholesome while Republicans can lie cheat steal whore and intimidate anyone they want to. Whoever said money corrupts was certainly right in the case of the Republican Party because in a matter of a decade and a half the whole concept has been eaten away from inside. Rotten to the core, the one stop shopping government who wants to run everyone's life and dominate everyone's choices in good ol U.S. of A.

Chris Matthews is on a Hillary vendetta. In the last week alone he has compared her to Madame Defarge, stated on his own show and Imus that there is a "big, ugly monster in the ocean who will not accept a woman as a candidate" (but clearly implying that HE can not accept her as one), and continually hinted that Bill is still fooling around on Hillary. This example is sadly the LEAST contemptible example on the show in recent weeks.

Penis envy! Matthews wants Bill's penis. That's all there is to it.

Does Margaret have any actual data here? I mean, even if Bill wanted to fool around, it's pretty darn hard to believe that, post-Monica, we wouldn't know about it if he did? We get full media coverage any time he seems 'too friendly' when a woman is within 50 feet. If Margaret actually knows something that demonstrates he hasn't changed, she should be reporting it, but she isn't. She's just sniping.

Despite what they say about him, Bill is still married to his first wife. When are we going to hear the polling numbers on Rudy? Have he changed his ways? Will the White House be paralyzed by a divorce proceeding if he gets elected?

Mooser: The phrase "I'm a lifelong Democrat but ..." is a shibboleth of the rightwing concern troll. Constantly voting for Zell Miller doesn't make MaxGowan a lifelong Democrat.

abuse an intern in the White House
How is consensual sex with an adult "abusing an intern?" Too much Kook-Aid?

The country needs to move on and when Bill gets caught again (which you know he will), once again, his weaknesses will take center stage over more important national issues. I, for one, have had it with that!

Perhaps your prognisticator license should be revoked or perhaps your crystal ball needs a good cleaning. Another Broder-insider-comment, what the Horse used to call the "Kool-Kids."

And for those who sanction this kind of trash talk simply because you oppose a Clinton candidacy, shame on you. As ecaost says, we need to silence these buffoons. It's not about the Clintons, it's about the "liberal media!"

If you don't think the Eagles will sue, change the name of the award to the "Dirty Laundry Award".

For, "We all know that crap is king".

Penis envy! Matthews wants Bill's penis. That's all there is to it.
Bingo! And he hates that bitch Hillary because she has what he fantasizes about!

It is unseemly that Chris and Margaret would air their sex life fantasies in a public forum but we can hardly blame Bill or Hillary for that.

Hey Gonzone - are you in denial just like Hillary?

I don't have the book here in front of me, but in his book "What Liberal Bias?", Eric Alterman quoted Margaret Carlson saying something to the effect that her chief qualification for her slot on The Capitol Gang was that she knew nothing, and that when it comes to punditry, the less you know, the easier the job is.

Whatever generates these security codes has a droll sense of humor: my Security Code for this message is "news".

Margaret Carlson: Fred Thompson's ex-groupie. Her fawning over Fred on the same show tells me it's not over for her.

Is Margaret still fucking Fred?

Why didn't Tweety ask that?

or you would know from the many people who have seen it firsthand that Bill has continued to be a "feline" hunter.

Unless one of these people saw an unambiguous public display of affection, or were themselves unambiguously asked for a date by the former president, they have no "firsthand" knowledge whatsoever.

The reds are always relying on red herrings. This is how they drag attention away from the real issues they do not know how to handle and don't want to face, like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Social Security, health care, the budget deficit and national debt, tax cuts aimed only at the wealthy, the climate crisis, the corruption in the White House, etc. And the sad thing about it is, the Dems often let themselves get dragged along.

To be fair, Bill IS married to Hillary. If I was married to Hillary, I don't think I'd be looking to the homefront for my nookie either. I'm sure Hill's a real firecracker in the boudoir...

[OK feeding the troll, I admit it]

Hey Belinda,

Is it anybody's f*cking business who a person has sexual relations with?
And is it appropriate fodder for the "liberal media?"
Does your disdain for the Clintons blind you to the fact that Margaret and Tweety aren't talking about Guliana or Gingrich or any of the many other GOopers?
They can damn well be gossip mongers for all and join the National Enquirer or keep their f*cking traps shut about Bill and Hillary on what is supposedly mainstream news programs!

That ring any bells in your belfry?

I repeat my earlier point: Has anyone got any evidence that Bill Clinton has been "philandering" more recently than 1998 (almost ten years ago)?

If not, then everyone should shut up about it, including our clueless TV pundits.

Boy, oh, boy. I hope Giuliani gets the nomination and then we can have fun watching Rudy squirm when it comes out he was cheating on Judith while he was cheating on his wife.

I bet if we ask Jimmy Breslin nicely, he will tell us the identity of "Other Girl".

Hey Gonzone-

When you're a public figure and your inability to keep your sipper up begins to trump important national issues, you betcha it matters. And "Tweety" and everyone else who reports political news wouldn't be reporting this at all if it wasn't known all over DC that Bill hasn't changed his ways. Besides, when it comes to politics, Hillary is no Bill and everyone knows that also.

As for Giuliani, Gingrich, etc., their indiscretions are widely covered by the same media as well. You just can't handle the truth about the Clintons.

It's time for a change. No more Bushes and Clintons!

Hey Virginia-

Do you believe in Santa Claus also? Google Bill Clinton and Patricia Duff, Belinda Stronach, and Denise Rich.

Merry christmas!

Why aren't DC pundits obsessed with Rudy's sex life? Why isn't Chris Matthews asking whether Rudy has changed his ways?

After all Hillary the candidate didn't cheat on her spouse, Rudy the candidate did cheat on his spouse publicly.

Hillary is no Rudy. And besides, how do you know she didn't cheat also? Rumor has it that Martina Navratilova was spending some time at the WH while Bill was diddling Monica.

I don't think Margaret and Tucker are married.

I'll be a bit of a contrarian here and say these are questions that it would be wise for Democratic primary voters to consider. I defended Bill Clinton throughout the 90s. I believed him when he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman," and I was disappointed when I found out that was a lie. And while I felt the whole impeachment thing was a partisan witch-hunt, I also recognized Clinton's own irresponsibility and culpability.

I have no way of knowing if Bill has "changed" or not. I suppose it's none of my business. But the point is that Hillary has some real baggage, and Bill is part of that. Do we really want to have to go through this stuff all over again, or would it be better to have a "clean break" and start with someone fresh?

It is "an uncomfortable, unsavory topic" but it is there, and it won't go away. I don't blame Matthews for raising the issue. But if there is going to be some "incident" that becomes an issue I very much hopes it hits during the primaries and not during the general election.

I am totally with you Pete. I also defended Bill vehemently even when I privately has reservations about whether any of it was true. The bottom line is that no amount of money raised, clever campaign strategy, or the wisdom of Carville/Begala/etc. will be able to make it go away.

Moreover, while Hillary is a smart, respectable public servant who has done a fine job in her brief tenure as a US Senator from New York, her experience is on par with that of Obama and Edwards and she is not the charismatic leader that her husband was/is.

Aftger 8 years of incompetent polarization, the country really needs someone who will bring people together and focus the country on the future not the past. Hillary is not that person.

He would have been an epic President if he didn't abuse an intern in the White House.

Posted by: Bruce
Date: March 30, 2007 11:23 AM

---------

Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bill Clinton did not abuse Monica Lewinsky. It was consenual. In fact it was Clinton who ended the encounter when she pressed Clinton to dump Hillary for her.

You may call it sordid, even unseemly, and a number of other things but abuse of Monica is not one of the other things you may call it.

Bushwacker, you ignorant slut:

- Worked for Gene McCarthy in '68
- Worked for George McGovern in '72
- Worked for Mo Udall in 75-76 and was an Alternate Delegate for him at the '76 Democratic National Convention.
- Continue to faithfully give $$$ to Democratic candidates and work for local ones nearly annually. Gave Kerry $100. I was lucky enough to shake Bobby Kennedy's hand in '64, the most charasmatic human I have yet encountered, FWIW.

Look, folks, 21% of Democrats say they won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances. We have got to confront our Clinton problem.

FTR, I'm with Edwards, the only one of the top three who has a chance of winning.

And I used to wonder how Republicans could have such a blind spot for Nixon.

What's your record, Bushwacker?

Clinton did not have "sexual relations" with Monica. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "Sexual relations" is "coitus." (look it up on line).

It has always flabbergasted me that that whole acandal/impeachment business was about an "affair" in which they never even f**ked!!

Virginia, our married President of United States put a cigar in a 22-year old intern's vagina and she wrapped her mouth around his cock 10 feet outside of the oval office and collected his semen in her mouth and on her blue dress. Is that not sexual and unsavory enough for you?

Belinda Stronach?
Denise Rich?
Particia Duff?

Stuff and nonsense. Those are old rumors and there is no evidence whatsoever that Clinton was ever physically involved with any of them. Any time an attractive woman has any dealings with the Clintons you will get these stories.

I still believe that Bill could not get away with any serious fooling around. The hounds would be on him in two seconds. (I'm not saying he wouldn't like to, just that he can't).

Is a president not allowed to fart or take a crap near the Oval Office either?

He lives there, for chrissake! It's a residence, not a church.

When the Clinton story became "big news" it was because of the whoring of corporate "news", not because of marital indiscretion. How many ways can this be said until it gets through the thickness?

Repeating salacious details that have been heard a million times, even in the "hallowed halls" of Congress, does not make the blame fall away from Tweety and company and upon the Clintons.

Last thins I'll say about this:

You never hear kind words from a jealous heart. Commit the salacious details to heart if necessary to your own sexual fantasies. If not, I'm certain Tweety will give regular refreshers.

Amen, Bill. And if Clinton had resigned after his grand jury testimony (urged by those hard-right wingers like, oh, Gary Wills), Gore would have taken office, and our current national nightmare would never have happened.

And I used to wonder about the denial Republicans had about Nixon . . .

Boy, oh, boy. I hope Giuliani gets the nomination and then we can have fun watching Rudy squirm when it comes out he was cheating on Judith while he was cheating on his wife.

I bet if we ask Jimmy Breslin nicely, he will tell us the identity of "Other Girl".

Posted by: Mrs Panstreppon
Date: March 30, 2007 12:44 PM

THAT'S the one that will sink Rudy. More people than Jimmy Breslin know about her. She was a staffer and involved in some serious controversy. That story is an "opposition research" dream. It will break at the "right moment".

Who cares?

Amen, Bill. And if Clinton had resigned after his grand jury testimony (urged by those hard-right wingers like, oh, Gary Wills), Gore would have taken office, and our current national nightmare would never have happened.

What total crap. Resign for what? Deliberately misleading the country into war? Outrageous failure to take action in the face of an unprecendented natural disaster? Turning the Justice Department into a hack machine? Any of these? No. For having an extra marital affair. What crap. MaxGowan is about as much of a Democrat as George Bush is a competent President.

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