Pretty much only the most narrow minded liberals would contend these comments od anything but hurt the party.
No. What hurts the party is when Democrats target fellow Democrats. There is nothing in the above that is either untrue or out of line. Nothing. Dean just says what others are too cowed to say.
There is no need to explain the above comments. They are self-explanatory. You say:Here are the quotes that will be used against Democrats as if somebody else were chair, their words would not be used against the Democrats.
The Republicans are the enemy of the Democratic Party. They are going to use any and everything they can against us--that is their function. So we can try and say bland, inoffensive things like Kerry did and lose because people think we don't have the courage of our convictions or we can stand up for what we believe, take our lumps and fight.
I would suggest that you read John Edwards thoughts on this. Jan Wenner has some insight on this as well.
The real upshot is this: Dean is our party chair. You can either work with him to grow the party, or you can work to undermine him. That's it.
Rereading these comments they seem very harsh but I feel very strongly about this. As probably do you.
as you say and I think we will probably continue to disagree.
Let me add that I want to see the Democratic Party putting out a strong message too, but not the stuff Dean is saying.
It seems to me we have a great opportunity right now. The polls are all showing that the public is unhappy with the congress and the administration. The republicans are fighting amoung themselves, or they were until they got some more Dean quotes to get fired up about.
We don't need to tell the American people how bad the republicans are( they are figuring that out for themselves), they need to know what the Democrats stand for plain and simple.
And this is slightly off topic but I think the Democrats need to find something else to say about terrorism and the war.
And this is slightly off topic but I think the Democrats need to find something else to say about terrorism and the war.
We do agree about something! We probably even agree that Dean might not be the best one to say whatever it is Dems say on terror or the war. Wes Clark anyone?
I suggest distinguishing "this will be used against the Dems" from "this will hurt the Dems". If you believe the latter, please make the case for it. But please take into account that the SwiftBoaters managed to use Kerry's war record against him, which IMHO clearly shows that "will be used against" is not a relevant category at all.
Regarding the "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for." statement, many independents and democrats have friends and relatives who are Republicans. They don't hate them, they may argue politics with them but in the end I think most Americans are disgusted with the extremes on both sides. They want less division, not hate speech.
Dean has used race to divide, these quotes use race
it should IMO be obvious why this is offensive, but appartently not..I have seen this statement defended in many places. The usual agrument is that the Republicans used her so now we should too.
I think what the republican congress and Bush did regarding Shavio was reprehensible. I also think what Dean said was offensive. I don't believe you can justify a wrong act by saying someone else did something worse.
Here is the logic being used against Democrats
The Leader of the Democratic party says that Republicans are all pretty much the same, white and Christian, and he says he hates Republicans therefore he hates whites and Christians.
and no, I don't believe this follows logically but people will, it will sell and it will hurt the Democrats by causing moderate voters to turn away from a party that is cheering, justifing, rationalizing.. these kinds of comments.
Please take a swing through the center and center right blogs. These comments are pushing people away from the Democrats, people we need to win elections.
Pretty much only the most narrow minded liberals would contend these comments od anything but hurt the party.
June 10, 2005 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
No. What hurts the party is when Democrats target fellow Democrats. There is nothing in the above that is either untrue or out of line. Nothing. Dean just says what others are too cowed to say.
There is no need to explain the above comments. They are self-explanatory. You say:Here are the quotes that will be used against Democrats as if somebody else were chair, their words would not be used against the Democrats.
The Republicans are the enemy of the Democratic Party. They are going to use any and everything they can against us--that is their function. So we can try and say bland, inoffensive things like Kerry did and lose because people think we don't have the courage of our convictions or we can stand up for what we believe, take our lumps and fight.
I would suggest that you read John Edwards thoughts on this. Jan Wenner has some insight on this as well.
The real upshot is this: Dean is our party chair. You can either work with him to grow the party, or you can work to undermine him. That's it.
Rereading these comments they seem very harsh but I feel very strongly about this. As probably do you.
June 10, 2005 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
as you say and I think we will probably continue to disagree.
Let me add that I want to see the Democratic Party putting out a strong message too, but not the stuff Dean is saying.
It seems to me we have a great opportunity right now. The polls are all showing that the public is unhappy with the congress and the administration. The republicans are fighting amoung themselves, or they were until they got some more Dean quotes to get fired up about.
We don't need to tell the American people how bad the republicans are( they are figuring that out for themselves), they need to know what the Democrats stand for plain and simple.
And this is slightly off topic but I think the Democrats need to find something else to say about terrorism and the war.
June 10, 2005 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this is slightly off topic but I think the Democrats need to find something else to say about terrorism and the war.
We do agree about something! We probably even agree that Dean might not be the best one to say whatever it is Dems say on terror or the war. Wes Clark anyone?
June 10, 2005 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suggest distinguishing "this will be used against the Dems" from "this will hurt the Dems". If you believe the latter, please make the case for it. But please take into account that the SwiftBoaters managed to use Kerry's war record against him, which IMHO clearly shows that "will be used against" is not a relevant category at all.
June 10, 2005 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regarding the "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for." statement, many independents and democrats have friends and relatives who are Republicans. They don't hate them, they may argue politics with them but in the end I think most Americans are disgusted with the extremes on both sides. They want less division, not hate speech.
Dean has used race to divide, these quotes use race
""We're going to tell all those white boys who run the Republican Party to stay out of our bedrooms." I think the phrase "white boys" is the offensive bit here not the bedroom angle.
And in this quote " "You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here.", Dean is saying that the hotel staff would include people of color. Why does he think that, what point is he making about hotel staff?
Next
Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives . The knee jerk reaction here will be what about my hard-working republican father/mother...
This quote
a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same. They all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party.
I agree with Obama I think Obama's premise holds true for race as well as religion.
<BLOCKQUOTE> I don't like it when people use religion to divide, whether that is Republican or Democrat," Obama said</BLOCKQUOTE >.
and last
"We're going to use Terri Schiavo later on," Dean said of the brain-damaged Floridian who died last month after her feeding tube was removed amid a swarm of political controversy.
it should IMO be obvious why this is offensive, but appartently not..I have seen this statement defended in many places. The usual agrument is that the Republicans used her so now we should too.
I think what the republican congress and Bush did regarding Shavio was reprehensible. I also think what Dean said was offensive. I don't believe you can justify a wrong act by saying someone else did something worse.
Here is the logic being used against Democrats
The Leader of the Democratic party says that Republicans are all pretty much the same, white and Christian, and he says he hates Republicans therefore he hates whites and Christians.
and no, I don't believe this follows logically but people will, it will sell and it will hurt the Democrats by causing moderate voters to turn away from a party that is cheering, justifing, rationalizing.. these kinds of comments.
Please take a swing through the center and center right blogs. These comments are pushing people away from the Democrats, people we need to win elections.
June 12, 2005 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink