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The Icky-poo Factor


I’ve gotta stop going to dinner parties. I hang out with a professional, academic, thoroughly liberal set of Seattleites. Quite comfortably, I should add – until the discussion touches upon our military. At two in a row of recent dinner shindigs my wife and I attended, someone made a comment that essentially asserted a moral equivalence between our soldiers in Iraq and the Islamic suicide bombers. The first time this happened, there were four couples at the dinner table, when the host said “Yeah, they call their suicide bombers ‘martyrs’ and we call our soldiers ‘heroes.’” The guy to the host’s right had done a hitch in the Navy before finishing college. The guy to his left, yours truly, was a former Army officer, the son of a career Army officer, and the father of a young man doing Navy basic training at the time – and we had just finished talking about my son. My host’s righteous liberal revulsion for the U.S. military was so thoroughgoing and blind that it never occurred to him that he was equating his two close friends and their loved ones to someone who would walk into a Tel Aviv coffee shop full of grandmothers minding baby carriages and blow them all to kingdom come.

I call this the “icky-poo factor,” the righteous left’s automatic curled lip of disdain at the sight or mention of a uniformed American soldier. I’ve seen so many manifestations of this liberal abhorrence of military institutions and people, ever since Vietnam. The left never could differentiate between opposing the Vietnam war and opposing war, or opposing warriors. It amounts a sort of Puritanism, which insists that since war is evil and destructive, those who have gone to fight in one are just as evil and destructive. Joel Stein, the L.A. Times columnist who has a talent for plumbing the depths of superficiality in his columns, captured the essence of this attitude with his assertion that our soldiers in Iraq shouldn’t be welcomed or honored in any way upon their return, because they’re Bush’s enablers – these guys laying down their lives for each other in Iraq are “ignoring their morality.” Icky-poo. University faculties raise a fuss about ROTC being allowed on the campus, because the military is evil. Icky-poo. In late September, 2001, a co-worker told me that NYPD officers should be sent to Afghanistan to arrest Osama bin Laden. Not the military. Icky-poo. Here in Seattle the other day, someone entered a motion with the University of Washington Student Senate calling for a memorial plaque to be placed somewhere on campus to commemorate Pappy Boyington, who was a UW graduate. Two of the young, precious and pure stood to object. The University shouldn’t honor a “killer.” The Student Senate then voted the motion down. Pappy Boyington! The Marines’ greatest flying ace! The Black Sheep Squadron! Icky-poo. I once sat at dinner with some Brown University graduate students who were going to be collaborating with me on a DOD-sponsored computer graphics research project. One of them told me that he was bothered by the fact that his research was going to be funded by “the military,” and he asked me how I dealt with that. “The basic question you have to ask yourself,” I told him, “is whether or not you believe that the United States ought to be prepared to defend itself. If you don’t, on principle, then you’re a pacifist – a philosophy I respect but don’t agree with. If you believe, as I do, that the United States ought to be prepared to defend itself, then it’s an easy step to decide that our forces should be as technologically advanced and capable as we can make them.” The conversation went on for a while, focusing on the distinction between having issues with U.S. government policies being carried out by the military versus the question of whether we should have a military. But the memory that really stayed with me was the image of the stunned, open-mouthed expressions on the faces of the four grad students when I had posed the fundamental either-or question. They had never thought about it. They had never thought past the fashionable campus attitude toward the U.S. military: icky-poo.

There was a lot of talk about the “values” factor in tilting the electorate towards Bush in 2004. But after taking a second look at their data, the pollsters came to a consensus that more people who voted to re-elect Incurious George did so because they didn’t trust the Democrats to protect them effectively. Why didn’t they? Well, consider what you see when you look across the Democratic spectrum of attitudes toward the military: On the far left, loud, reverberating “Icky-poo.” Over on the other end, slightly right of center: Jack Murtha. By himself. In the broad center-to-left area in between: dead silence. Except for an occasional, faint icky-poo, not borne of disgust but instead of a squeamish discomfort that comes from knowing that many people are disgusted by this topic, so one must struggle to make one’s point with carefully-chosen euphemisms – or remain silent.

Mostly we remain silent. There are so many issues related to the U.S. armed forces that deserve substantive debate and discussion:

  • How large should our forces be, and of what and how large specialized components should they be made up?
  • How should they be equipped?
  • How should they be trained?
  • The question that precedes these: for what missions should our forces be composed, equipped and trained?
  • And of course, the ultimate question: under what circumstances should they be sent into harm’s way and under what circumstances should they be withdrawn?

Democratic politicians try to address the last question, of course, because the situation in Iraq is so egregious. But even there, we’re so uncomfortable with discussing military options in any depth that we turn instead to a little political litmus test, a phony either-or choice: everybody bugs out tomorrow versus no, we must remain for some unspecified time in some unspecified posture until some unspecified criteria are met. The “middle ground” is to try not to commit either way. We’re afraid to criticize, so we credentialize. John Kerry is a Vietnam vet with a Silver Star, so nominate him. But don’t let him talk. Keep it vague, anyway, like “I’ll bring in the U.N.” Oh, great, Jack Murtha spoke out – he was a Marine colonel. But gloss over his ideas about redeploying as an over-the-horizon reaction force. Too much detail. Let’s just pretend, along with Fox News and the Republicans, that Murtha said to cut-and-run. Wesley Clark is speaking out – hey, he’s got great credentials. But don’t discuss anything he’s suggesting, even to support it. Let’s just dress him up in his uniform and we’ll all quietly hide behind him. The everlasting shame of it all is that there is so much that needs to be said. I dream of a Democratic politician who would stand up and say

 

I’m proud of our service people. I’m proud that they’re all-volunteer, proud that they’re so well-trained, immensely proud that they’re so brave and so willing to take on impossible tasks. But why the hell are we giving them impossible tasks? The Bush Administration sent them into Afghanistan after bin Laden and the al-Qaeda, who had attacked the United States and killed 3,000 people – and then they contracted out bin Laden’s capture to a bunch of primitive Islamic tribesmen, who pocketed the money and then helped escort bin Laden into Pakistan. Meanwhile the administration sent the bulk of our troops to Iraq, to invade a country because of a fabricated threat from a dictator whom we had had completely boxed in for over ten years. Furthermore, they sent our soldiers there without adequate body armor, without adequate vehicle armor, and without enough people to control the situation. We’ve put these fine people into a meat grinder of a situation. We’ve lost over 2400 of them already, the Army Reserve and the National Guard are collapsing and the Regular Army isn’t far behind. We’ve spent hundreds of billions of dollars, we’ve transformed al-Qaeda from a lunatic fringe group to a movement that spans the Arab world, and the Iraq occupation has provided them with a stream of new recruits who are getting on-the-job training and combat experience at our expense. We can’t just leave overnight; we owe it to the Iraqi people to help them establish a stable situation. But the quickest step toward that stable situation might be a withdrawal of most of our troops out of Iraq’s cities. That needs to be discussed and negotiated. But the present insanity cannot be allowed to continue.

 

I wish I could hear something like that. But I know I won’t. If anyone ever tried, it would be drowned out by the unified screech from the right of “You’re not supporting the troops” and from the left, chorus after chorus of “Icky-poo.”


8 Comments

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Weird.

My experience is that folks on the left say precisely what you've put up in your block quote.

I'm here in ultra-blue Manhattan, and I've never heard anyone diss the troops, their service, courage or commitment. It's been a little surprising to me, actually. I remember the anti-armed forces reaction at the end of the Viet Nam war. I haven't seen it this time around. Even anti-war people like Howard Dean did not direct his ire at the troops.

I think the professionalism that's exhibited whenever you see or read an interview or other coverage combined with their volunteering to serve their country has overcome the reflexive anti-military attitude of the left.

It's interesting that you haven't had the same experience. Is this because you're mostly referring to academic environments?

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J.P. DuBaun

A lot of the experiences were in an academic context, but not all. My son was wearing his uniform in downtown Redmond last week, and a bicyclist riding by yelled "Killer" and some other choice names at him. My wife was telling one of our neighbor friends that our son had enlisted, and her response was "Oh! I'm so anti-military! How can you stand it?" I think she probably meant that she was against the war, but some people just don't make the distinction.

I have never been around progressives that sounded like my imaginary block quote. It's truly encouraging that your crowd in Manhattan speak about service people positively. Maybe eventually the attitude will transfer to Democratic politicians, or become better known, in general. I'll bet that if you checked with the 2004 Bush voters in the red states, though, you'd find that their current perception of Democrats is that Democrats don't like and don't trust the military, and are unable to think wisely about whether and how to deploy them. The far lefties say things like what I've quoted, the Karl Rove types exploit them, and the center-left Democrats may not say anti-military things, but they don't repudiate them very loudly, either.

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First just a quick thanks for deciding to write up and publish your experiences and feelings about this.

Since I just spent my site time (way too much) on other "icky poo" subjects like TPMCafe Management, I don't have time to comment in detail as I'd like, maybe will come back later. I'd especially like to get into more sophisticated background to discuss with you, like the differences with this whole thing between boomers who had the experience of Vietnam and who have had life experience, and passionate lefty youngins, and the eternal generation gap where the youngins resent hearing any criticism from the elders. (Witness the reaction to Todd Gitlin's post a couple weeks back on liberal patriotism, former 60's radical, or the fact that Amitai Etzioni feels the need to advise this to commenters on his thread.

But I will say quickly without much editing, that I think that so many of those that identify as "liberals" seem to be in total denial that there ARE lots of people like you describe who also identify as "liberals," and that the reason that the supposedly mythic "why do they hate America?" right wing media machine message is so enduring is that there are plenty of very vocal liberals feeding it. It's true you won't find it much in cosmopolitan places like New York, that's because denizens of necessity in such crowded and integrated places are trained in tolerance across the entire spectrum, not just tolerance to the preferred group. But yeah, it comes from echo chambers, protected echo chamber pockets like academia and websites.

Virtually every time I post on that, how much of it I have seen in my left of center blogosphere travels (not to mention real world travels to or reading the publications of such liberal strongholds as San Francisco, "Hollywood", Seattle or Madison, WI,) I get "in denial" flack back saying those are just the wingnuts, and they are a minority. (Recent examples here and here. And I always wonder, why spend time debating me that "liberals" don't say such things, why not spend the time challenging the "wing nuts," telling them you're a liberal, and you don't think like they do, so that people like me and DuBaun can believe you. Because our eyes and ears tell us different.) My far too much time spent on the net the last couple of years tells me different--they may be a minority, but they are a vocal one, and when few bother to challenge them, but sometimes even encourage them with "high fives" of good ratings, well, the stereotype will endure. If no one bothers to challenge or down rate a hate-filled rant about baby killers in Falluja, but many often challenge and down-rate comments supportive of GOP and/or Bush, well, let's put it this way: if you change no one else's mind about some "liberals," you've changed mine. It's just that I think there's a lot of me types out there. They're just silently judgemental about "liberals" until something really pushes them to say something like DuBaun finally did here.

This is one reason I have been feisty in the past about members being negative to commenters and posters right of center on this site. If you're not willing to see yourselves as others see you, you're in echo chamber, preach to the choir land, and you may wake up after the next election shocked, shocked once again that this Democrat or that Democrat didn't win, because there was mobilization of anti-liberal bias, or just enough crucial swing voters went GOP. If the shoe fits....help label yourselves an intolerant minority insensitive to right of center views but one that permits and even lauds anti-American ranting as "healthy"....there are more people out there saying "icky poo" about liberal excesses that don't bother to say anything when they see this all. They're not passionate, they're tolerant, but they are judging "thumbs down" and silently saying "icky poo, these folks are not for me."

gotta go...thanks again...

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A quick p.s. "example" came to mind. I have 4 younger brothers who live across the country in very varied careers, spanning in age from boomer to Gen X. I have a "Greatest Gen" Dad and and Mom. We were raised in a classic Democrat home, the units were very active in the Vatican II "revolution," the family backgrounds all working class. Dad is a life-long Democrat, but he hates "liberals." My brothers all like to joke about liberals, don't so much hate p.c. and liberalism as much as dismiss it as ridiculous, I think they are all swing voters. Mom, a classic bleeding heart, is the only one tolerant of "liberals," but she can't stand buttinsky social worker types. They don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly, they came to these conclusions from what vocal people who identify as "liberals" say and do, often in local politics, i.e., when discussing school vouchers, to hear about America being a racist imperialist brute because it's population is a bunch of uneducated religion-soused idiots just doesn't go down well.

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Thank you, DeBaun, for writing this commentary. I am a parent of a soldier too and have heard the same sort of comments -- and worse, actually -- expressed by those identifying themselves as liberals or progressives. One person called my son a killer and expressed hopes that all our troops would be killed in Iraq.

Despite the fact that I opposed the war and demonstrated multiple times against it before the invasion, I was called a warmonger. Guilt by association, I presume.

When I asked this person what she had done to try to prevent this invasion, the answer was nothing. She had done nothing...no letters, emails, faxes to Congress, no letters to newspaper editors, no demonstrations, nothing.

I never knew what people meant when they talked about the far radical left or believed it existed or understood the contempt for them.

I do now, unfortunately.

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Yes, there are people like you describe. I would suggest the way to avoid this is simply to be more moral in our use of military force, so there is not the association of dedicated soldiers with trigger-happy foreign policy.

Consider that the previous version of this disrespect was during Vietnam. I don't remember any complaints along this line during Somalia or Bosnia, or during the no-fly enforcement.

It is precisely the paradox of feeling obliged (properly) to support the troops during a conflict that enraged me so about the Iraq invasion. Since decent respect for the soldiers makes it tricky to complain about military practices such as securing the Oil Ministry instead of the Museum, or Abu Ghraib, or Fallujah, we're stuck with a delicate dance of saying "I don't blame the Army, but..."

It bears some kinship with our conflicted feeling about firearms. Arms in the hands of our friends have defeated enemies and made our neighborhoods safe, but in the wrong hands they wreak havoc.

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DuBaun, thanks for this post.  As others have mentioned, it's always helpful (if not as pleasant as you've made it) to be reminded of what other people think, especially those with opposing views.

One question.  Most of the people I know who are opposed to the ROTC on campus do so because of "don't ask, don't tell" -- saying that no company that discriminates on any basis is allowed to recruit.  So they think the government should be held to the same standard.  Does this square with your view/experience?  Does this make a difference to the "icky poo" factor?

And an anecdote.  I have tried to be like your block-quote person -- opposed to the war in Iraq but supportive of those asked to fight it.  My equilibrium was profoundly thrown off two summers ago, at my cousin's wedding.  She married an infantryman, just returned from a tour in Iraq.  At the rehearsal dinner, I was seated with her, her husband-to-be, his army buddies, and their dates.  In the run-up to the presidential election, the talk turned to politics.  And this was definitely a more conservative bunch than I normally spent time with.  Yet I found myself not jumping into the conversation, realizing that these men knew how to operate automatic weapons! 

(One of the groomsmen also asked me to use smaller words, but I don't think that was related.)

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Another anecdote. I was at a small anti-war demonstration and we were approached by a lady who said in a calm, polite voice that her soldier son in Iraq was a hero and that we were undermining his heroic service. What we were doing was unpatriotic. As she left I asked to walk with her a few steps and say a few words. I said that as a combat veteran I had seen soldiers act heroically in a war we had come to believe was completely wrong. I said it was the war we were protesting, not the soldiers. I said that we felt we being supportive of the soldiers and our country to protest a war that put those soldiers in jeopardy for wrong or secret reasons. I said that no doubt during WWII that many German soldiers had acted heroically on the wrong side. She looked at me a moment then screamed in my face that her son was not a fucking Nazi.

When I returned to the group they thought that I must have said something outrageous.

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