Thoughts on Sen. Obama's speech and Nathan Newman's post:

Sen. Obama: Democrats, for the most part, have taken the bait. At best, we may try to avoid the conversation about religious values altogether, fearful of offending anyone and claiming that - regardless of our personal beliefs - constitutional principles tie our hands. At worst, there are some liberals who dismiss religion in the public square as inherently irrational or intolerant, insisting on a caricature of religious Americans that paints them as fanatical, or thinking that the very word "Christian" describes one's political opponents, not people of faith.

Three simple questions, Sen. Obama:

1) Which Democrats? Which liberals?

2) What specifically did they do or say?

3) What specifically would you have had them do or say instead? Otherwise, it's just more "Some Democrats..." nonsense -- not just untrue but totally gratuitous.

How about next time, "I propose..." instead of "Flying in the face of the America-hating progressive wing of my party, I propose..."

In an otherwise entirely reasonable post, AmericanDreamer wrote: "Obama's argument that it is possible both to rescind calls to check one's religious rhetoric at the door as a condition of speaking in the public square..."

Which calls? Who among elected Democrats or party spokespeople has called for this?

Although a great many religious people are actively and sometimes vociferously hostile to secular people, who are these Democrats and liberals who are saying that Jesse Jackson, for example, should check his religious rhetoric at the door?

The longer this thread goes on, the more I'm convinced that "Some Democrats..." (or liberals or leftists) is the most pernicious construction the Republicans have ever created.

Where are they hiding, these mysterioius "some?"

I've been involved in progressive and Dem politics for 40 years. I've seen religious contingents march side by side with the most radical of radical leftists and never be treated with anything less than respect. I've seen roomfuls of secular people refuting right-wing claims to moral superiority by citing Christian tradition and Jesus' words, rather than saying who cares what Jesus/the Bible says. I've been to rallies, memorial services, and bar mitzvahs where secular people thrilled to religious rhetoric. I've seen Dean Corps people turning their energies to serving meals and sorting cans at faith-based charities.

It's odd that no one ever says, "Some Republicans..." even though the "some" are so easily identifiable, and given so prominent a platform: Coulter, Malkin, Limbaugh, Dobson, Robertson...no shortage. And yet no one can ever name a single one of the "some" Democrats, liberals, or leftists.

Besides playing into the Republican narrative, it's just not constructive to suggest that we change in some unspecified manner from a way we're not.