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Oh, Lordy, not again!


Do we really need this idiot to wreak havoc again?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/22/nader-considering-another-white-house-run/#more-5508


While I don't necessarily blame Nader for Gore's loss in 2000 (after all, if Gore had carried either his home state or Clinton's, Florida would not have been an issue), I do blame him for diverting attention from the race and making a general pain in the neck of himself.  I really don't think this is about the democratic process for him; This man is an egomaniac and he needs to just go away.

On the positive side (if he gets into the race), he only got 0.3% of the vote in 2004 (down from 2.7% in 2000), so hopefully the voters are on to him and he will get an even lower percentage in 2008. Interestingly, in 2004 Nader got practically all of his votes from the 30-44 age group, and mostly from non-white men and women (looking at breakdown by gender), all of whom are strongly in Obama's corner.  Anyway, he's going to be on Meet the Press tomorrow morning so we'll see what he has to say.

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Oops - the URL isn't working - let's try that again:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/22/nader-considering-another-white-house-run/#more-5508

Hope this works - sorry about that.

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C'mon, Nader reads the blogs. He can see there's a lot of potentially disaffected Democrats out there who could become his base if Obama gets the nod.

Unfortunately (for Nader), nobody's told him that the ratio of screen names to warm bodies in this particular group runs around 100:1 and his net will be around 5 actual votes. Go Ralph!

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I agree. Fortunately, I don't think the people who are disaffected if Obama gets the nod are going to move further to the left - if they go anywhere besides Obama they'll go to McCain. I think he's out of luck this time!

Please, no snide remarks about Nader's ego from Obama supporters. Your guy seems to have a wee problem of his own in that department.

http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/

Let's face it, Obama thinks very highly of himself. It's not necessarily a bad thing, folks with low self-esteem make for lousy candidates, but please don't pretend the guy is Stuart Smalley.

I have made my views clear on a different thread. The bottom line is that I'd like Nader to run. He *is* the candidate Obama *claims* to be (except that Nader lacks Obama's revivalist rhetoric). How Obama reacts to Nader's candidacy, whether he embraces the man (and why shouldn't he?) or colludes with McCain to exclude him from the debates, will determine my vote in November. Because, as far as I am concerned, Obama's treatment of Nader will reveal his true political agenda.

After all, Obama stands for the same things that Nader stands for, right? So, therefore, no need for him, or you, to worry, right?

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Gee, I didn't see a "Paid for by Obama for America" on that website - a supporter choosing to see him in that light (which, believe it or not, most of us don't) does not mean that our candidate thinks he's the Messiah. I'm not pretending that Obama is Stuart Smalley - hardly. He has a very strong, healthy self-concept, as well he should (everybody should be so lucky, iun my opinion!) But Nader is a delusional, egocentric, eccentric person and should not be taken seriously. Obama can certainly be gracious toward him (and I believe he will) but, come on, this is just silliness.

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Show me a president that has not had a large ego.

Being able to win means a bit, I'd say. Nader can't, so it doesn't matter what kind of man he is. His acomplishments are historic, but history. And they were not achieved from public office.

Many of us seem to forget that no candidate is a solo act. Obama and Clinton both represent collections of people, lines of support, and by now, thousands of volunteers. Not even Rambo can win a campaign alone.

If Nader was serious about affecting policy he would be 1) publishing new books, 2) pushing new legislation, 3) running in the Democratic primaries, so he could push for specific planks in the platform.

But he is too pure to be political. All he can do is cause trouble these days.

Actually there is a small reason to worry. Nader won't pull any votes from Mcain, but regardless of who the Dem candidate is he will manage to distract from them and possibly split things up by just enough to put Mcain in office.

It will have no effect if we are truly looking at a landslide Dem victory, but if it is at all close, the possibility is there.

The most important Nader fact is that he refused to campaign in 1996, despite having his name on the ballot.

No one should ever have taken him seriously after that.

The "Obama messiah" blog is not an official one, may not even be run by his supporter, but the speeches and the reactions to the candidate are quite real. They do reveal a certain dose of, shall we say, lack of humility. What's with the speaking in third person, anyway? When Bob Dole did it, everyone remarked how creepy that sounded.

The recurring theme in the comments above seems to be that Nader "should not be taken seriously". Firstly, who appointed you to be the seriousness police? Secondly, this goes to my earlier point. The sheer volume of negative comments does suggest his candidacy worries you. And it should. As I wrote earlier, Nader is the candidate you hope Obama to be. For that reason, he is much more likely to hurt Obama than McCain. Especially if, should Nader run, Obama looks closer to McCain on key issues than to Nader.

pmj6:

the speeches and the reactions to the candidate are quite real.

The "messiah" wording comes from Obama's detractors, not his supporters. His detractors call him the "messiah" and then spout "Ah ha! He really thinks himself better than everyone else and you all worship him!"

It's worse than hypocritical.

What's with the speaking in third person, anyway?

Care to cite what the deuce you're talking about? I've watched a very large portion of his speeches and have never seen him refer to himself in the third person.

Firstly, who appointed you to be the seriousness police?

Got it. So, they're not allowed to have their own opinion on the subject. Right.

Nader is the candidate you hope Obama to be.

Don't you go interpreting motives for people just because Nader's candidacy concerns them. The man is a megalomaniac. The reason his candidacy is concerning is because some people actually take him seriously, enough to siphon votes from candidates who actually have a shot at winning. Were it not for the votes Nader siphoned in Florida, no recount would have been necessary.

To all who (for whatever bizzare reason) want to support Nader, please consider this suggestion. In 2000, two of my relatives wanted to vote for Nader because they felt the two mainstream parties were "6 of one, half dozen of the other" (after 7+ years of GWB, they no longer feel this way, I should add). They both lived in swing states, however, and of the two 'indistinguishable' candidates, they preferred Gore over Bush. SO..... they arranged for a 'vote swap' with two other relatives who lived in a certain-to-go-for-Gore state. The Nader-supporters in the swing state voted for Gore; the Gore-supporters in the safe state voted for Nader. All Nader cares about is the symbolism of his run; he'd be more surprised than anyone if he won the election or even a state. So he got the national statistics he was looking for (all 0.3%) and my relatives who wanted to support him didn't have to live with responsibility for putting Bush in the White House .......... something for which they are devoutly grateful.

It does help to read things before passing comments on them.

"I am going to try to be so persuasive, so that those of you who are still wavering...will suddenly come to the conclusion -- a light beam will shine through -- will light you up -- and you will experience an epiphany -- I have to vote for Barack!"

This is a *recurring theme* in his speeches. You have *never* heard that before? If you are not aware of this, I dare say you know your candidate less well than you think. I heard it in variations in several of his speeches.

Try referring to yourself in third person for a while, see how it feels. I tried it once as an experiment, it made me feel quite uncomfortable--who the hell did I think I was? Anybody who can do stuff like that regularly has a serious ego issue. But Nader, now there's an egomaniac, right?

As to Nader, I do take him seriously. If Obama knows what's good for him, he'll take him seriously too.

What I find interesting is this: a big part of what people find disagreeable about HRC is her AUMF vote, triangulation, the works. Obama's own triangulation, in form of support for the war for the last several years gets a pass. But now Nader comes along, someone who is dead serious about ending the war and the reaction is? Now suddenly Iraq war does not matter, all you care about is winning. With an attitude like that, you could give me lessons on cynicism.

Make no mistake about it, the fun part of Nader's candidacy, should he decide to run, will be that he'll in effect call Obama's bluff, on Iraq war and many other issues. We'll get to see what cards Obama is really holding back there. But, something tells me you'd rather not look.

"I am going to try to be so persuasive, so that those of you who are still wavering...will suddenly come to the conclusion -- a light beam will shine through -- will light you up -- and you will experience an epiphany -- I have to vote for Barack!"

Taking on faith that what you've quoted is actually something Obama said -

I guess you don't know the difference between "Bob Dole will cut taxes" and speaking about yourself from someone else's point of view. One is arrogant and weird, the other is a quote.

Now, cite your source for the above quotation.

As to Nader, I do take him seriously

Of course you do, which is why you have such a problem with people in this thread NOT taking him seriously. You're taking it personally, overshadowing your judgement, leading to statements like

But, something tells me you'd rather not look.

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the fun part of Nader's candidacy, should he decide to run, will be that he'll in effect call Obama's bluff, on Iraq war and many other issues.

You've made the fatal logical error of assuming two candidates who advocate the same thing are interchangeable. They're not. Nader's negatives far outweigh any agreement he and Obama might have.

All this talk about "negatives" is red herring. Obama's negatives are plentiful enough too, but the usual reaction to anyone pointing them out is, well, quite hostile. So, please, no snide remarks from the Obama crowd about taking it personally. You have pretty much written the book on that. Pot, kettle, you know the rest.

Yes, believe it or not (and, judging from your response, it's "not"), even though you might have never heard it, this is what Obama actually said, on multiple occasions in a slightly varied form. It came from the blog I cited earlier, and I can vouch I heard him say words to that effect. And, yes, as much as you'd like to split hairs here, speaking about yourself from someone else's point of view is still speaking of yourself in third person. Not to mention that couching a decision to vote for yourself in terms of a "road to Damascus" (beam of light! epiphany! dude, get a hold of yourself...) conversion is, well, quite out there. I know, just another sign of a healthy ego.

Yeah, I know. Those are not actually his words. He's just reading a speech someone handed to him. For all we know, maybe it's even recycled from David Axelrod's earlier campaign. But he certainly seems to be enjoying reading it.

Finally, I am reasonably certain Nader knows he is not going to win. That is not the point of his run, nor is it to divert votes. The point is to push the Democratic Party to the left. He very explicitly expressed his position last year. I, for one, believe the party needs some serious pushing. If you think the Party today is exactly where it needs to be ideologically, fine. You'll like Obama just fine. He's not one to do much pushing. As for me, I applaud Nader for trying.

is ralph getting his campaign funds from the repuglitards again ???

Nader is not trying to push the Democratic Party to the left. He just hates to be out of the limelight. This is all about Nader, nothing more.

And there will always be loonies who say that there's no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. So what? Loonies of all stripes are out there. Luckily, there's not very many of them. (And if you haven't learned anything after seven years of Bush/Cheney, you really ARE a loony.)

In this case, it's not going to matter in the slightest. There's absolutely no way Nader can pull enough votes from Barack Obama to make any difference at all. And posting things like this just gives Nader the attention he craves.

I've lost ALL respect for the man. It's a real shame that he's come to this.

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Carol Soprano

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