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Convince Me I Should or Shouldn't Switch to HIllary


Dear TPM Readers:
I admit to having been a Barack supporter, but I'm reconsidering.  Tonight, I was inspired by Senator Clinton's "win" speech. Despite the fact it is nearly impossible for her to garner enough elected delegates to win the nomination, and despite the fact that every day she stays in the race Senator Clinton does damage to the Democratic Party's chances of winning the Presidency, I'm attracted by her closing arguments that she will bomb the hell out of Iran, that she will avenge Pearl Harbor, and that she will show this country, finally,  how continued war will be good for the country. I think too, that she is showing us what an amazing public service she is performing by pressing Obama.  Three cheers. So, I'm left to conclude "vote for Hillary" even though I know Obama will be a much better President.

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If bombing the hell out of Iran is a winner for you, I can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't switch to Hillary immediately. In fact, I think you should probably be a precinct captain for her or at least leading a parade. Maybe you could get a little suitcase nuke for yourself.

psst... Lynn...

(sarcasm...)

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Psst. Don. I know.

And yet, sometimes sarcasm is just so jejune. Tonight would be one of those nights.

I am an American living in the Netherlands. Senator Clinton's statements about "obliterating" Iran positively FREAKED the foreign press.

What's more, the results of yesterday's election left the distinct impression over here that Pennsylvania voters don't mind the threat of another entirely avoidable war, and are unaware of (or don't care about) the impact statements like these have on the international community. The American press has, so far, seemed to let Senator Clinton's statement fly, as if it's a harmless bit of electoral pandering.

It's not. Statements like this are heard loudly overseas. They inspire people around the world to give up on the idea that Americans deserve another chance to earn international respect.

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Good reasons to switch to Hillary besides ensuring Iran will be bombed back to the Stone Age - 9/11, Farrakan, Ayers, Al Qaeda, and Wright is a terrorist!

Hey, that sounds just like McCain....

Snark is part of the change we can believe in!

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I'm relieved you posted. I've been feeling silly about saying this, because I've been supporting Obama for so long now that it's a little humiliating. Before, I saw him as an intelligent man with integrity--someone who inspired others and spoke to what was best in them, who knew how to organize and motivate people to strive toward a common goal. Someone who had a vision for America, where it had been and how it could fit into a new, globalized world, and someone who had thoughtfully organized his policy ideas around this vision for America's future. I even made my first donation to a political campaign and worked the phones because I believed in him so much. What a dope.

Boy do I feel stupid now. I've been listening to Hillary's speeches on youtube and now I reallize that before I was just under the spell of some whoop-de-doo speechifying by an inexperienced drug using America hating boy who won't even wear a simple little flag pin on his lapel, that's how much he hates America. I mean, not even just a little flag pin so we can all see how he feels about the country, how hard is that? And his preacher said some things that I don't really understand but I know they're hateful and he hates white people. And he can't even BOWL for god's sake! How can we have a president who doesn't even friggin' BOWL?!? And this guy who was a criminal 40 years ago hosted a community meeting that Obama came to, and why would he want to meet with criminals and terrorists? Hamas would love that I bet. And have you heard that his middle name is Hussein--the same name as the grandson of the prophet Muhammed, so Obama is a Muslim, too, which means that he's a Jew-hating terrorist because all the muslims are terrorists who we are eventually going to nuke when Hillary is protecting us in the Oval Office. She knows how to do it, you know, because she has combat experience in Bosnia, so she knows what it is like, unlike Obama the weakling whiner.

I'm glad I found all this out in time. Hillary made me realize again what politics is about...that its good to close our eyes and pretend like we're back in the 90's because those were better times, and that I should shut up and sit back and let the people who are really entitled to this presidency have their turn at it. After all, it is Bill Clinton's wife, and I really liked Bill Clinton in the 90's and was pissed as hell at all the Republicans tearing him apart about blowjobs and what the meaning of "is" is. Oooooh it boils me just thinking about it. But no fear, Hillary knows how to hit back at those nasty evil republicans. Also the nastier, more evil Obama fans who are trying to rob her of her rightful job just because she is a strong women and they hate women.

Thank you, I feel so much better now that that's off my chest. Hillary 08!!!!!

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I congratulate you for finally seeing the light and shining brightnesss that is this wonderful, powerful, serene glowing woman! Could you recommend the 12-step program that got you off the latte and Kool-Aid?

Obama is pastor is an angry BLACK man. Of course you should vote for Hillary!

Well, I'm glad to hear you came away from Hillary's "win" speech with a good feeling. I myself came away from Hillary's speech feeling a fresh surge of energy and the great need to go kneecap a few people (after I'm done whining and complaining about unfair treatment). Then I'll give in to the urge to stand in front of large crowds of people and say a lot of things I know to be untrue. After that, I'll stiff a few folks that I owe money to, then I'll send some people out to repeat the things that I know are untrue.

But that's just the start! Stay tuned for more!

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Thank you all for your comments.

You know, now that I've been a die-hard HILLARY supporter for almost an hour, I'm beginning to notice that this message board is filled with OBAMABOTS who have all DRUNK THE KOOL-AID and can't THINK FOR THEMSELVES because the OBAMAMANIACS have been brainwashed. I'm tired of all you elitist, grande-triple-shot-five-pump-no-fat-no-foam-sugar-free-vanilla-latte drinking advanced degree holding condescending holier-than-thou I-know-better-than-everyone-else-because-I-paid-more-for-my-education I-bowl-less-than-100 Obamoids telling me what I should and shouldn't think.

I know...why don't we elect the lawn clippings in my front yard to be president? They have more experience. And they don't hate America as much. If my lawn clippings had hands they would put them on their heart while the pledge of allegance was played I bet.

Obamarrogant Obamassholes. When will they grow up and realize that politics is all about trashing the s**t out of the other guy and saying whatever it takes to be president. They're all Obamanauts on some other whacked out planet of hope.

Yes you can

But yes Hillary WILL!!!!!!!

HILLARY 08!!!!!!!!

"Obamarrogant Obamassholes"

Hehe, I laughed and then realized that these terms have probably been used as an attempt at a serious insult by people reading sites like Taylor Marsh.

To steal a line from our Troll-in-Chief...

Sad.


I stand by Obama. I do not think I can bring myself to vote for Hillary if she is given the nomination. I thought I could up until she started trying to utterly destroy Obama. Instead of trying to win on her own merits HRC is using tactics straight from Rove's handbook. I find that ethically reprehensible.

Hillary Clinton is conservative on social and civil liberties issues, but populist on economic issues. She is a war monger and would not hesitate to use military force -- she even threatened to annihilate Iran on TV yesterday and today -- not to mention taking a unilateral stance.

Despite the NIE and the IAEA reports to the contrary that concluded Iran is not making a nuclear weapon she accused and threatened Iran knowing good and well that was not true; it ought to set-off alarm bells. Iran has not attacked any country for two centuries and more. This type of bellicosity is dangerous and unsettling.

Furthermore her refusal to talk to any country adverse to America her first year in office illustrates more of the same: a foreign policy in alignment with Bush and Cheney's.

Without reading the Iraq NIE intelligence report (although she claims she was briefed) did not stop her from voting to attack Iraq. To think America was about to wage war on a country without even reading the report is major. Was she not concerned about the consequences? Moreover she voted against 3 separate amendments that would have curbed Bush's juggernaut to war. One submitted by Dick Durbin (D-Il) would have compelled Bush to demonstrate "imminent threat" prior to invading Iraq.

The second was Levin's amendment. While Levin's bill called for the UN's approval before force could be used it also reinforced America's right to defend itself even if the UN voted against it. Therein nothing in that bill was an impediment to the US in any way. Yet Hillary claimed it would have made the president "subordinate" to the UN.

Although the amendments were defeated Hillary had 3 chances to slow down Bush's rush to war, but chose not to!

Not to mention Hillary's vote for for Kyl-Lieberman bill -- similar to the AUMF -- giving Bush a free-hand to attack Iran. Obviously she failed to learn from her "experience."

Hillary also shifted her policy on torture. First she said she would seek "legal" exemption then changed to her current position, "torture cannot be American policy." I do not believe her.

And if that is not enough -- Hillary is quoted as saying:

“I’m a strong believer in executive authority,” she told her husband’s former aide, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, in December 2003, in a statement recently recollected by Michael Crowley in The New Republic. “I wish that, when my husband was president, people in Congress had been more willing to recognize presidential authority.”

The woman is not going to change much. She will follow Bush on foreign policy, presidential powers, et al. But don't expect her to reinstate our civil rights either.

There are many other reasons why I cannot in good conscience vote for Hillary so I will write in Obama on the ballot. If you feel you want to switch to Hillary, do so, however, I suggest first doing research on her background -- Bill's too.

Iam concerned that America is on a downward trajectory. Iam concerned that America's students score near the bottom in education compared to other countries. Iam concerned about the future of our country and the world. Iam concerned about our civil rights and usurped executive power. Iam concerned about Guantánamo & the unjust way the prisoners are treated. Iam concerned about the illegal tribunal trials, unitary presidential powers, warrantless wiretapping, etc... etc... etc...

Obama promised to shut down Guantánamo and end torture. He promised to treat Congress as an equal branch of government. In contrast HRC has not.

I trust Obama. I do not trust Hillary -- I never have, but I did not know why until a few months ago. Yes she will be a better on domestic issues, but I do not want more of the same when it comes to foreign policy, social justice, human rights, etc. These issues are very important.

For a president to be effective he or she must be able to see the "big" picture. Hillary has not demonstrated that. Obama has.

Inspiring people to participate in the political process is democracy in action. Hillary has no intention of governing from the bottom up, she will govern from the top down. That is 180 degrees from Obama. His campaign is funded by millions of donors whose donations average $98.00 per donor -- as opposed to Clinton who is funded mostly by corporations, special interests and lobbyists. Sure Obama has taken some pak money, but it is little compared to Clinton. The difference being is that Obama is beholden to us whereby Hillary is beholden to her special interests donors.

While I do not agree with all Obama's policies the quality of his character, moral fortitude, intelligence and reasoned logic far outweigh any disagreement I may have. This is about something bigger than "me." It is about the big picture.

All of us share a common vision: bettering the human condition. That is Obama's vision, too.


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“I’m a strong believer in executive authority,” she told her husband’s former aide, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, in December 2003, in a statement recently recollected by Michael Crowley in The New Republic. “I wish that, when my husband was president, people in Congress had been more willing to recognize presidential authority.”

It is becoming clear Hillary believes in a unitary Imperial presidency. And we though McCain would be Bush on steroids.

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Well well well that's just like an Obama-ramalama-ding-dong to post WORDS and ARGUMENTS as part of a RATIONAL DISCUSSION!!!! You all just think you're soooooo much smarter than everyone else. Well I've been on the HILL-TRAIN for a whole three hours now, and y'all should climb on aboard, because this HILL TRAIN is an EXPRESS! It's gonna be choo-chooing all the way to Pennsylvania Avenue, which I guess runs right through the actual state of Pennsylvania. I didn't know that before. But thats what my GIRL HILL told me, and she never ever lies!!!!

Unlike that liar liar pants on fire Obama, whose pastor once was seen in the same Jewel/Osco store that "Jew Hater" white supremest terrorist leader FarriCANT was seen in less than a WEEK LATER! AND THEY SAY ITS COINCIDENCE! Yeah right. By the way Obama is a muslim.

You Obama-nerds need to get your heads out of your edition of the Economist or whatever it is you holier-than-thou, Look-at-me-read-this-smart-book-on-the-train-in-front-of-everyone Obamageeks read and look a little bit at the real world. Hillary is keepin it real! She's just a hard drinkin', hard-scrabblin, blue collar, gun totin plain folk, just like you and me if you and me had 109 million dollars.

By the way did you know Obama's black? Have you thought about what kind of message that would send to the terrorists?

So are you voting for Hillary or not? If you're not you're a brainwashed Obamabot.

HILLARY 08!!!!!!

Wow! This is like a rescue group for former Obamabots! You are of course right, Brian--as anyone who sees the error of his/her Obama ways must be. How could I have been so wrong?

I mean, Hillary won a state she spent her childhood in, filled with the kinds of voters she most appeals to, by practically 10%! And she raised $2.5 million in one night since her victory, which is over 5% what Obama raised in March. SHE has never stuck by a person close to her despite his embarrassing and, many would say, harmful-to-America words. SHE has never had brief truck with former 60's radicals. She has CERTAINLY never said anything elitist about small town voters--at least, not those in any of the big states that actually, you know, COUNT.

And might I point out that she NEVER plagiarized parts of someone else's speech. Not that she CANnot. But she never WILL.

But... how do we keep those pesky Obama cultists from spiking our Crown Royal while we aren't looking, and drawing us insidiously back into their fold?

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A win is a win is a win, okay? HILLARY WON and now all day I will have to put up with those Obama nutcses crying about how oh oh its only 10%. Daymn right! Double digit win for the HILLMEISTER!!!!

And yeah, she raised $2.5 MILLION in ONE DAY!!!! I haven't seen oBUMa's figures for that day...so where are they? Why doesn't he release his fundraising figures for that day? What is he afraid of? Does he have something to hide, like maybe he's giving it all to some Hamas charity or to some Black liberation theologist?

And you're right Yvaughn. She never said anything elitist exept for that one time that she said "screw em" to the southern democrats. But the southern democrats SUCK, they're worse than republicans because at least republicans SAY they're republicans. So they don't count. Oh, and the MoveOn democrats, but they're a bunch of greasy looney hippies who don't know what the f**k they're talking about. They didn't even want us to go into World War II, they didn't even want us to fight the Civil War--that's what we're dealing with here! So screw them, too! SCREW EVERYONE THAT IS NOT RIDING THIS HILL TRAIN with its PLUSH SEATS and SUMPTUOUS DINING CAR!!!!! GO HILLARY!!!

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I agree that a win is a win, but get your numbers right.

The final numbers are about 8.6% so no double digit win, sorry. Very close though and as an Obama supporter I would have liked obviously to see that lower; but I'll take (rounded up to prevent talk of sexism) a 9% loss in PA.

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I'm an Obama supporter, but I do feel he does have a very real and tangible problem with Senior Citizens against McCain ... which unfortunately means he's going to have a very real and tangible problem with Pennsylvania and Florida, since they have the highest percentage of senior citizen voters in their populace.

What's more, I don't think there's much Obama can do to win them over. Many of them grew up in Jim Crow and it's still deeply ingrained in their psyches.

screw senior citizens... it's about the youth vote, about tomorrow, about the 21st century. We can not turn the White House over to Grandpa Simpson. If we do America is dead. Get out an campaign, volunteer for a true visionary - OBAMA!

Unless you think she would make a better president or is more likely to win, you shouldn't switch.

How could you so easily be seduced by one speech? The Obama supporters on this site wouldn't switch sides if he were caught in a pedophile sting and they found nuclear material with Al Quaeda markings in his basement.

I predict a merciless lampooning by his real supporters.

(SIRTS)

If its not apparent by now......BYE!

I understand completely Brian. I had to give up the Kool-Aid when Senator Obama proved what an out of touch elitist he was when he asked for orange juice in a diner in my hometown. I was so insulted, as I'm sure the owners of that diner were. When I go home next month I'll stop by and apologize to them for my former support of him.

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