Enough with the Blood-letting. Do your job supers. Hillary Nader must be Stopped.
It's time for the Super Delegates to do their job and stop the gratuitous blood-letting by the Clinton campaign. Surely our party leaders understand that if the first African-American to get the majority of pledged delegates is denied the nomination the Democratic Party will become immersed in a battle royale from which it is unlikely to recover any time soon.
Hillary is now a Ralph Nader within the party. Her candidacy, at this point, is nothing but that of a spoiler regardless of the fact that she was a strong candidate. Her whole plan of action is to do everything she can to damage Obama between now and the convention so she can attempt to convince the Supers that she's the only remaining electible candidate. This isn't just conjecture, it's widely known. Indeed Rush is now gleeful over the prospect of the potential of possible riots that could ensue in Denver if party leaders and elders actually did take the nomination from Obama.
Now that Clinton has climbed in the gutter it is time for the supers need to act like the party leaders they are supposed to be and end this by letting her know that they will be voting for Obama at the convention. Nothing will be gained by further delay whereas potentially everything, at least from the perspective of the Democratic Party, may be lost.





What possible rationale do the supers have for sitting on the sidelines? There are only two viable viewpoints for how the supers must behave. The first, propounded repeatedly by Hillary, is that they should exercise independent judgment. Along this line of thinking, there is no reason for a super to wait because a super ascribing to this view would not care about any of the metrics. The second, propounded by everyone else, is that they should award their vote to whomever has the lead in pledged delegates at the end of the nominating season. But because we do not need to wait for the end of the nominating season (June 3) to know who will lead in pledged delegates, because we know the answer to that question right now, then why the hell are they waiting? This is ridiculous. Let's get rid of supers in 2012!!
April 26, 2008 4:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Easy. They're afraid of her. Hillary is vindictive and they are afraid of what she might do to them if she wins, and to a lesser extent even when she loses.
At this point, Hillary's strategy is very simple and quite clear: Give me the nomination or I'll destroy the party.
April 26, 2008 6:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sadly, they don't realize they don't need to fear her if they don't hand her the victory. As stated, they are her last hope.
April 26, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has moved from "It takes a village to save a child" to "I have to destroy the village to save it". Makes sense. Good neocon doctrine. Democratic Party... Iran...if it's in Hillary's way - obliterate it. Dick Cheney would be her ideal VP.
April 26, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
HERE'S WHAT WE DO....
Just tell Hillary world peace, health care and the economy fixed themselves. Then when she climbs in the trunk of the car we can yell "NOT"!
Har har har...so who's got a car?
Bowing for Barry
Borat
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
April 26, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a lose/lose situation, because she'll destroy the party by stealing the nomination as well. If she does successfully steal the nomination by hook and by crook, Obama supporters should all request provisional ballots in November and write in Barack Obama.
April 26, 2008 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please...another case of the vapors! She is not destroying the party. She is not trying to damage Obama any more than Obama (or his minions) are trying to damage her. Maybe the Supers know something you dont? Maybe they are making a measured and thoughtful decision. In your tin-hat conspiracies, did this EVER cross your mind?
April 26, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
rwo,
"She is not trying to damage Obama any more than Obama (or his minions) are trying to damage her."
Where have you been and what Primaries have you been watching?
April 26, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
What you're really saying is that the process must be stopped before we learn any more about Obama and before his advantage withers any further and before his increasing negativity completely blows his image and causes his idealistic supporters to look naive. I think those are the losses you are more worried about.
What did Ralph Nader get? Something like 3% of the vote? I really don't think that compares to Hillary.
April 26, 2008 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ask yourself what percent of the vote a 3rd party candidate is going to get if Hillary is the nominee? The Reagan Democrats haven't been Democrats for 30 years. Where's Hillary's appeal to voters under 50? What future is there for the party in that?
April 26, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Otto,
The issue doesn't reside on us learning more about Obama because what we plenty and enough of is about Hillary.
April 26, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
That should read:
what we KNOW plenty and enough of is about Hillary.
April 26, 2008 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. I suppose otto would like to inform us when Obama's been vetted enough? Give me a break. I voted for hillary in her senate race. I can't wait for another democrat to challenge her for her senate seat. I bet she does a Lieberman, it she doesn't get her way- I don't put anything past her.
April 26, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Little Fish;
Take a note here-my email is drw3344@gmail.com.
I intend to help organize a national campaign to help oust Hillary in her next senate race, using the Donna Edwards campaign as a model. With national help Ms. Edwards, a progressive attorney and community activist, defeated an incumbent!
My idea is to find a charismatic, progressive New Yorker and repeat the Edwards success. I am quite serious about this!
After we put Obama in the White House, bring international charges against Bush and Cheney, the next project should be to put the Clinton machine out to pasture for good.
If she straightens out maybe she can be a future Ambassador. But that's it. We do not need more of this again. Every couple weeks both candidates negatives are going up. It will be time to end it for good in her next senate race.
April 27, 2008 1:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
The process must be stopped? Where did anyone say that? If the superdelegates have made up their mind (which I believe they have, but they simply lack the courage to publish their decision), why not just say it? We, the minions, have already had to declare our preferences (save for the remaining contests), so why is it inappropriate to ask them to do the same? Asking them not to wait until Labor Day to state a preference is not "stopping the process." Geesh, this Clinton "disenfranchisement" meme got old weeks ago.
April 26, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is that the supers were in shock after the 11 straight wins and they listened to Hillary when she set the goal post at Texas and Ohio. She did well in Ohio, and ok in Texas so she set the goalpost at Pennsylvania, she didn't exceed expectations in Pennsylvania but she didn't fail either. So, now they're just waiting for Obama to exceed expectations somewhere so they can come out already without feeling guilty.
April 26, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting.
April 26, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
NOT JUST "INTERESTING" BUT...
Kinda like you know after you bong hit that first exhale thing.
Trials Dude!
Jeff Spicoli
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
April 26, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good Post....Never mind the who Clinton Campaign talking point crap about either the Supers know something.....The people should still decide. How dumb are the supers that dumb that they dont see whats at stake? So maddening, what have we learned about Obama other than Rovian smeer campaign results that Hillary is perfectly willing to exploit in her drive to somehow win. There is nother There. I can understand why Republican trolls to want this to continue, but Democrats at some point have to realize this is not good the longer it goes on. I know its hard shake the fake pundit debate that tries to comfort you everything will be allright. There is nothing there other than spin for his enemies.
April 26, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
If "the people should decide", then we need primaries, not caucuses.
April 26, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take a memo!
We'll bring that up for 2012!
April 26, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing there
April 26, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why would the SDs be waiting to endorse?
Clinton fares slightly better than Obama against John McCain in hypothetical matchups for the November election. Although both races are too close to call given the poll's margin of error, Clinton is running two points ahead of McCain, 47% to 45%, while Obama is running one point behind, 45% to 46%. -- Lydia Saad
Maybe the SDs know that there are no bullshit caucuses in November and that the more people that vote, the worse Obama does. See: Texas. Yeah, they know he has the lead in pledged delegates and they know he acquired it...ie winning caucuses and the exclusion of two large states' delegations.
Maybe some of those reasons figure into why the SDs are holding back.
April 26, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, too bad the Clintons didnt decide to interject race earlier. Maybe she could have put the fear in the white people that see, he's not special hes just like any other black person sooner. So shame on them for being so conceited that they didnt play that hand soon enough.....
Whats wrong with a certain part of the Democratic party!
April 26, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama got the race issue out there as quickly as he could in SC. Be proud.
April 26, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take a Memo!
Wilentz is a long time friend of the Clinton's, certainly an unbiased source!
April 26, 2008 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bullshit caucuses? That's a telling statement.
April 26, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Slate...
Obama talking point No. 3: The party will explode if superdelegates reverse the will of the pledged delegates, among whom Obama leads. Young voters, first time voters, and African-Americans will stay home in November in protest or even vote for John McCain. That could lose Democrats not only the presidency but also other races down the ballot.
Clinton counterargument: According to Pennsylvania exit polls, Clinton's coalition would be more dissatisfied with Obama as the nominee than Obama's supporters would be if Clinton won the nomination. Sixteen percent of Obama's voters would stay home or vote for John McCain if Clinton were the nominee, but 24 percent of Clinton's would if Obama gets the nod. In other words, there's more to worry about, in terms of internal party dissent, from an Obama nomination.
April 26, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes talking points are also true. Use common sense. Its not just one segment that you would piss off. Its all of them combined, and the party will not recover!
April 26, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't trust those numbers. Some of Hillary's Reagan Democrat Catholics will vote for McCain after the Republicans finish framing her as a radical feminist baby killer on the abortion issue.
Obama attracts voters who will not otherwise vote. He would increase the usual turnout among African Americans. If he is not on the ticket the turnout will be unusually low. He'll get some young voters who haven't voted before and who won't be excited to vote for old Hillary.
Obama is going to lose a significant number of voters on race, but I figure most of those voters are the kind who the Republicans will also be able to capture away from Hillary once they've had a chance to reframe her. People who fear change, are open to all kinds of fear messages.
April 26, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I ADORE REDUNDANCY DON'T YOU I MEAN DON'T YOU JUST ADORE IT!
That "fear" thing you were talking about. So cool. You must be like a Professor of Fear or something, right! I mean you talk so eloquently of it. Like as if it is your every waking thought. You must have several friends.
Thanks for being so revealing!
Sushiboy
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
April 26, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the problem. It's not just Hillary, it's her supporters, who have set the bar for an Obama victory ridiculously high but really believe that even Michigan should be counted and that every caucus state shouldn't.
If they give it to Obama after a loss, it'll look to them and to some regular folks who aren't paying close attention, like some inside-the-beltway power play and there really are a sizeable number of more right leaning Dems who this might over to the other side in November. Much better for them to do it after a few wins. Of course, Hillary's strategy right now is try and deny those wins.
April 26, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most people want this race over. Seat the Delegates in Michigan 50/50 if you must.....Yes it will look to them (her supporters) but it is what it is. This whole crying to the reff on things you knew going in is just not playing.
April 26, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very well stated in my opinion
April 26, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I mean, Bluebell I think you stated that well. I think we are saying the same thing, but you know..in my opinion
April 26, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, some reactionary posts here -- gratuitous blood-letting? Why is everyone so negative on HRC? She's entitled to -- and should -- stay in the race until Obama has his 2025. It sounds like some Obama supporters don't have much confidence in their candidate to cut his own path to the nomination; and if he can't what good is he as a president?
Odds-on, HRC might probably lose, but LET her lose.
The Democratic party will do just as much, if not more, damage to itself if it starts to strongarm her out of the race prematurely, without letting the process run its course. The way some bloggers talk, it seems they'd forego any election if one candidate was polling better than another. Others sound the "fear factor" of race riots if Obama doesn't win.
The primary race will be decided by the rules and if the Democratic Party plays its cards right, nobody is going to feel cheated by the process. Let's hope for that.
April 26, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
As for one of those that sound the Fear Factor, and yes I do believe that. Go ahead, take this away from Obama and you know....see what happens. It wont just be the Black people. It will be young people, and people who are upset because they understood what happened. Also, its not so much about riots, rather, you turn people away from the party they believed in.....So I say to the supers, Go ahead, play with fire if you want to!
April 26, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
BEST IDEA OF THE THREAD
If we give her back Bill Richardson (former Hispanic) and a blank check to Lane Bryant I guarantee you she will swiftboat herself!
It's worth a try!
thanks for considering
D. Axelrod
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
April 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
These remaining "supers" are between "a rock and..."
Give it to Obama, but Hillary is so vindictive.
Give it to Hillary and they have created a race riot, such as we have not seen before.
But give it to Obama, and when he loses the GE, we are still faced with the second possibility.
He has said "our time has come", and it won't be given up easily.
What's a mother to do?
April 26, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indiana might be the key for the super delegates. If Barack wins IN, even closely, and has a 10 percent win in NC, that will effectively cancel Hillary's PA bump. That might be the trigger for many supers, as the big "mo" will switch back to Obama and lessen Hillary's odds even more. That is the open door for the supers to voice their support for Obama without seemingly infuencing the race as they can say that the race is effectively over if Obama wins the last two biggest states, IN and NC, on the same day.
April 26, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
First we said it was SuperTuesday before superdelegates all run for Obama. Then we said it was the Potomac primary. Then we said he's going bag the supers after Texas and Ohio. Then it was PA. Now it's Indiana. I think we need to wait until Denver, because he can't seem to get them.
April 26, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm putting my money on Guam! It will all be over on 3rd of May. Mark my words...
April 26, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The DNC is already planning on seating
half the delegates from Florida and Michigan, and ALL the
super-delegates. They are meeting on May 31st to work out the
details. Also, if you count all votes, by registered voters, in certified primaries this year.....Hillary leads. The DNC can choose to throw out those votes, but that's not the same thing as saying they DON'T EXIST.
The super-delegates can use ANY criteria of their choosing regardless of math. Also, Obama has an actual weakness with the Democratic base, a fatal disconnect that could cost the Democrats the election. Hillary is behind in delegates....which means NOTHING outside of the our convoluted primary system. It has no direct relationship to her chances in the general election.....Obama's problems most certainly do. The super-delegates can't ignore the Democratic base, or the key swing states, because we can't win without them. And right now, Hillary is the stronger of the two candidates. She is tied with McCain in Florida, while Obama lags far behind.
And she leads McCain in Pennsylvania as well. If she won these
states, and/or Ohio where she is strong, she would secure the
nomination. I can't say with complete certainty who will win, but I can say this. The super-delegates can stop Hillary from
proceeding, but it's the voters that can stop Obama. Hillary will have an easier time winning over super-delegates than Obama will winning over women, seniors, working class whites and Reagan Democrats.
----
April 26, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
vooomit....Play with the peoples choice if you want too.!
April 27, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Like i said before guys disunity is one thing you do not need.With me so far??Because my Republican Bretheren will DESTROY you if you let them.If they do indeed give this to the IRON ***** by sneaky underhanded means then I really feel for you all.As I said when I publicly declared my support for OBMA if she gets this thing I and many others will Vote for McCain!!!
April 27, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink