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I Think Obama's Church Has Left Him


I sure feel sorry for Barack Obama.  In the beginning he was being attacked because of what his pastor said during sermons that he did not hear.  After denouncing those statements, Obama was criticised for not doing more, like walking away from his church. 

Now his pastor seems to be out for payback.  Attacking Obama for saying what he said.  Saying Obama said those things 'just' because he's a politician.

How dare he....the Pastor apparently has forgotten these famous words, "avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

It isn't Barack Obama's fault the media, GOP and Hillary have attacked the pastor's words and put them in the limelight.  Obama didn't denounce his pastor, just the words mentioned in videos.

On one hand the reverend says this isn't about politics, Obama, Hillary or McCain, on the other hand he seems to be saying DAM YOU ALL for treating me and the church this way, and personally warning Obama if he should win the oval office what is to come.

While I can understand the anger of a 'normal' man if treated like the Pastor has been treated after his many years of service for his nation; but this man is a clergy of the church.  He's making this personal --Vengeance is mine saith HE.

After the speech at the NAACP last night, I was impressed by the intelligence of the pastor and I said so publically.  Today after hearing the pastor's comments during the National Press Club, I can no longer support the pastor.

Obama no longer has to worry about leaving his church, his church has left him.

I sincerely hope voters can see 'through' this pastor and what his real goal appears to be -- get a little more fame, meanwhile, try and destroy Obama's career.


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Too bad Barry O did not leave the Trinity United Church and the crazy uncle when he had the chance. Praise the Lord for the Reverend Jerry Wright. Barry O/Jerry W 2008!

BARRY TURNS TO THE ONLY FIENDS HE CAN RELY ON

No pity please. I still got Rezko, Auchi, Ayers, Rev Meeks, Soros, Obama Girl and that goofy stalker Richardson!

Keep sending money and we'll keep squandering it!

HOPE CHANGE won't scare your kid's.
B. Hussein Obama

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE

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A) The pastor is not the church.
B) This pastor is recently retired from the church.
C) This pastor isn't attacking Obama.

A. Obama attended this "Church" for 20 years;

B. He's still technically the pastor, not retired for another couple of months;

C. Wright: "At a political event, he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician" I'm glad the REV is not attacking Obama.

Lost me at This pastor isn't attacking Obama. Suppose Wright were deeply committed to racial healing, to the start of racial equality, as in Black Liberation Theology.

Rhetorical Question: What's the best current hope America has for the start of the healing, for the conversation necessary for people to honestly confront racial divisions?

The answer is Barack Obama. Wright ought to be doing whatever it takes to help get Obama elected, including disappearing like McCain's lobbyist or throwing himself under the bus. Speeches, interviews, books -- none of these are going to help Wright clear his name, at least in this election cycle. His clips are part of the American culture, and the more he provides sound bites that the media can use out of context to slam him and, as collateral damage, Obama, the less his chances for the start of racial healing.

I wish Wright would swallow his pride and apologize for what looks like hatred in those clips. Everyone else seems to be apologizing for misspeaking -- Wright misspoke big time.

Wright may not be attacking Obama, but he's sure hurting Obama. If he's as smart as we all think he is, he knows that.

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I won't argue that he's helping Obama, or even that he's not hurting Obama, as I think it's difficult to tell. The comments are already out there and providing context might help. On the other hand, providing more air time for them will probably hurt.

I'm merely arguing that he's not attacking Obama. If I'm a clumsy oaf, and I accidentally bump into while running, that doesn't mean I attacked you.

If I'm a clumsy oaf, and I accidentally bump into while running, that doesn't mean I attacked you.

But if I'm an intelligent oaf and deliberately allow myself to bump you, then I am attacking you.

The question is: Does Wright know what he's doing? What the effect of his defenses will be? He's a bright guy, so it looks like yes.

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I don't think it's deliberate, and I do think that Clinton still thinks she can win. These are both intelligent people.

I'm not sure how you got the impression that Reverend Wright is attacking Obama. He has a right to defend himself against the unfair attacks that have been leveled against him.

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Ben, with his repeated statement that Obama said what he said (about his sermons) JUST BECAUSE he's a politician and charging that he will "come after" Barack Obama if he is elected president, since Obama would represent a government whose policies harm the poor, I think the Pastor IS trying to harm Obama.

Please show me where I'm wrong.

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In the first statement ("because he's a politician"), Wright is merely acknowledging the realities of politics. Many of Obama's supporters acknowledge that he is, in fact, a politician.

As for the second comment ("come after"), I'd need to see the context. The way you've phrased it, it sounds bad, but I'm not aware of him having said that, unless it is horribly out of context.

Carefully parsing what Wright meant in context is not the way to inform large parts of the population. The media control the impressions created and they have no intention of letting this controversy die out. There's money to be made.

The people's press, the Internet, is not much help either. For every lengthy, calm, and subtle interpretation, there's plenty of short, punchy videos. Given attention spans, guess what wins out?

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*sigh* Yes, you're right.

However, although I think a very solid argument can be made that Wright is harming Obama, I don't think that it is at all deliberate. The worst you can say (IMO) is that he's acting without consideration to the harm he is causing Obama.

Where his interests and Obama's conflict, he chooses his own. That's not the same as an attack, however.

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I'd argue that HuffPo is deliberately taking that out of context. I still can't find where Wright used the "come after" statement, but the latter statement was with respect to the media and not Obama.

It sounds worse in print than in the video. He was trying to make the point, after being asked if he hates America (or something like that), that his criticisms are of the American government, or of policies, rather than the American people. So he was trying to say that he's going to continue to do so even if Obama takes office.

But I'd agree with exregis that everything the man says is going to be taken out of context.

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Yes, I finally found the statement. It's at about 5:50 in that video on the HuffPo page. Coonsey: listen to it in context and see if you still think Wright is attacking Obama.

When Wright said he would "come after him" as President, he meant that he will be looking for Obama to begin to address the inequalities that Wright speaks of.

All snark aside, I do think Wright is far more articulate, convincing, passionate and honest than Obama himself is. Wright is an interesting guy who has never buckled under or been afraid to say what he really thinks. He preached. All Obama did was listen, and, apparently, never had the balls to take Wright on, though he disagreed with him.

I keep thinking about a scene in Synagogue MJ Rosenberg uses to demonstrate how crazy he thinks Charles Krauthammer is. According to Rosenberg, he witnessed Krauthammer shouting his rabbi down and making him apologize for saying the Jews might bear some blame for Palestine -- or something like that.

So here's this old guy in a wheel chair shouting down his rabbi for offending him -- but Obama?

And on FOX, Obama threw black men under the bus -- you know -- the kind of man who doesn't take care of his family. That's all Obama could come up with as an example of something he might have heard Wright say -- giving hell to black men. Is that a stereotype or what.

Reverend Jeremiah Wright is a good man. An angry man with a reason to be angry. It is his job to speak truth to power. And it is power's job to acknowledge that they heard him.

An angry man with a reason to be angry.

It would be OK in most professions to demonstrate that anger. But the clergy are not supposed to. Turn the other cheek, Let him with out sin, etc. Especially clergy who are committed to racial healing.

Reminds me of my graduate-student-day heroes, the Berrigan brothers. They helped elect Nixon. (As did I when I refused to vote for Humphrey because of one issue and voted Socialist instead.)

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Jesus/money changers/temple mean anything to you? ;)

Early Greek science fiction.

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Yes, and quite meaningful in this context, since it's the science fiction that most clergy are (in theory, at least) basing their sermons on.

In case it wasn't clear, I was responding to this:

It would be OK in most professions to demonstrate that anger. But the clergy are not supposed to.

In case you're not familiar with the details of the money changer incident, here is Bill Moyers (seems appropriate here) talking about that incident. I love this bit:

Jesus—angry!

I envision the Incredible Hulk. ;)

Should have said, human categories are fuzzy at best.

Like what does it mean for X to be human? If it means that X has a human mother, and if one believes in evolution through the primates, then we have an infinite regress. What does it mean for X's mother to be human?

Was there collateral damage in the temple?

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John 2:13-16:

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

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You're not really this naive, are you? Obama is running for political office. What do you want him to say? Fuck, he can't take a shit without having the Clintons put it on YouTube. Get real.

Ah, under the bus. Nice stretch Armstrong.

Oh the sweet gotcha from Morning Joe and Sean the Nazi, pleasant images of grandma dying, after a beautiful speech on race. Trying to bring it back, huh? Does it feel bad tag-teaming with the pigs?

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I apoligize. I FINALLY listened to the video. What he said was OK.

I do think however, by some of his actions on the video that he is making this about HIM, not his church. Isn't he being just as bad as the media by acting that way?

He makes a statement then slaps hands with a fellow next to him as tho to say, "I told them didn't I"

Perhaps the reverend is thinking that he is helping his church, his own reputation and Obama -- but I'm not so sure he is. If he acted RESPECTFUL toward the questions or after his comments -- it sure would help.

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You'll get no argument from me that he is definitely grandstanding in that video. It's not pretty, although he does make a lot of good points. (I particularly liked the Cheney jab.)

I don't know about you guys but i was laughing quite a bit at how Wright was owning people when answering those questions. We need a Pastor debate, Wright VS Hagee. Id pay to see that slaughter.

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He COULD have said that Obama says what comes from her heart, what he honestly felt at the time of the questions. Instead he made it appear that Obama said those words ONLY because he HAD to.

I don't personally believe that's why he said them. I think he's going by what MOST of us saw, the 30 second clips and decided that they were awful.

I tend to agree with you. And also with Ben when he says he's acting without consideration of any harm he might be inflicting on Obama, but not deliberately. I think he has a right to get out there and defend himself, I just think there's a way he could do it that would benefit himself, his church, and Obama. Which I would assume he would want to do as they've known each other for so long.

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I think Obama might have been unduly influenced by what he saw in those 30-second clips, but then he suffered from a common political ailment: he was unable to admit that he was wrong with respect to Wright.

Yes, some of those comments are still disagreeable, but most of them are quite understandable in context.

I deeply admired Rev Wright on the Bill Moyers show. As I posted Saturday morning, I did not think it would impact a lot of voters (who would have a hard time following his theological reasoning), but I thought he came off very well.

His performance at the National Press Club today, though, is going to hurt Obama, and one wonders if it was intended to do so. Make no mistake: I get the jokes, I get the allusions, I get what Wright is saying, I get the dozens, I get it.

And I know that Obama is not Rev. Wright. Despite some impatience with how he's run his campaign lately, my faith in Obama is unshaken.

But Wright just gave the press a Christmas tree full of sound bites and gestures that will occupy every news channel until Labor Day. He presented himself as being more exotic, more performative, more clownish (as in Dizzy Gillespie's clowning on stage) than most Americans have seen him before. He was Falstaff to Obama's Henry IV, though this Falstaff was not going to retire to the pub. In a segment that will sure to be played and replayed, he joked how he'd like be Obama's vice president. Great stuff in certain contexts -- not great when you are trying to win a primary in the state that founded the KKK.

America is going to have to grow up and expand its consciousness real fast to get over Rev Wright. For reasons that go way beyond this election, I sure hope it does. But . . .

Hope you post that to your blog.

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I think what Wright has done, and intentionally so, is separate himself from Obama. I think he's giving Obama a little breathing room by humanizing himself and killing the cartoon image the press was pinning on Barack. The more Wright appears, the less Obama will need to answer for him.

The more Wright appears, the less Obama will need to answer for him.

I hope you're right about Wright. Maybe I'm overwrought. This is indeed a piece of work.

However, I think that the more Wright appears, the more the primary becomes Clinton vs Wright and the general election McCain vs Wright. Either publicly or in the voting booth. The most important factor in realizing President Obama (aside from being the best candidate of either party we've had in forty years) is that Obama be post-racial. That is, be elected not because of his heritage, nor despite his heritage -- but regardless of his heritage.

This is an interesting idea, hrebendorf. If Wright becomes a bigger personality in his own right, people will see the important distinctions between them. (He might also produce some sympathy for Obama; the old, grinning uncle who won't go away.) I'm hoping that your interpretation proves to be the case.

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I said after last nights speech with the NAACP that I would enjoy watching/hearing him during church. He's not BORING that's for sure.

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Billy who are you talking to?

You know what this all reminded me of? The post from a few weeks back from Glenn Loury, Losing the Narrative. Losing the Narrative.

He wrote, in reference to Obama's speech on race:

he also threatens the 'black' narrative -- and powerfully so... If he succeeds, there will be far fewer public megaphones for the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons and Cornel Wests of this world, for sure. Many will see that as a good thing. But a great deal more may also be lost.

At the time I read that, it seemed to me like holding onto the "narrative" of the past to keep from moving forward. Which I thought was the whole point of the narrative in the first place.

He also wrote:

Advocates of the interest of black people have to consider what hand we’ll be left to play, should he be defeated in November.

That sounded to me like not wanting to try for fear of losing.

I can't help but wonder if Wright isn't falling into that trap. I thought the interview on Bill Moyers was great. I'm not sure how many people actually watch Bill Moyers. The stuff this morning is not going to go over well.

Last week, when I heard about this so-called "media blitz" by Wright, I assumed it had been coordinated with the Obama campaign. Now I wonder.

I think Wright seems like a very intelligent and honest person. I get the things he was saying. But the problem Obama is going to have in November if he is the nominee with regards to Wright isn't whether we can get people to understand the full context of Wright's comments, it's going to be whether voters will overlook them because they agree with him on the issues.

When we slide down the slippery slope of not keeping Church separate from State, this is where we arrive.

Setting up this year's election as a shouting match between the black church and the white church will only leave both as a smoldering ruin.

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We should be so lucky. ;)

Amen.

Sounds like a good discussion Wright and Obama will have if he is in the Oval Office. I believe Obama will listen and hope the relationship continues.

I understand Obama's need to be measured in talking about Wright. Obama has been amazingly honest and more forthcoming than other politicians treading on thin ice. I appreciate the relative candor of Obama, and wont fault him for not having complete candor (so hes better than the other choices yet we should punish him for not being perfect is a silly and now annoying thesis)- nor would I think anyone, without an axe to grind.

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I appreciate the relative candor of Obama, and wont fault him for not having complete candor (so hes better than the other choices yet we should punish him for not being perfect is a silly and now annoying thesis)- nor would I think anyone, without an axe to grind.

I agree with this sentiment completely. Along those lines, I think it's important for us (Obama supporters) to acknowledge that he's no saint—he's just the best presidential candidate to come along in a long, long while. He is still a politician, however.

I think we should dismiss the notion of Wright's defense of the Black church as fodder for conflict within the so-called White church. It is entirely possible that many churchgoers of both colors can recognize and understand some of the rhetoric more easily than journalists. In fact, there are certain commonalities, particularly within the Pentecostal tradition.

The "coming after Obama" promise falls within a certain traditional vision of prophetic righteousness. Our religious and mythological tales aboud with stories of the prophets or oracles confronting the powerful, even their powerful friends.

I also agree with others that promise of such a practice could have the positive effect of establishing Obama and the reverend as separate entities.

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coonsey

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