The Troll Whisperer
Let me caution you right off not to try these techniques yourself unless you have the time and energy to raise a troll. If you're not willing to invest in the training of a troll, seek the help of a professional troll trainer.
As we all know, the conventional wisdom teaches that trolls crave attention and that the right way to handle them is to ignore them. I disagree.
I think operant conditioning -- ignoring bad behavior, but rewarding good behavior -- is a much more promising approach.
While I generally ignore trolls, especially the little personal trolls one picks up at a site like TPM, I do keep my eye open for any chance to reward appropriate behavior by acknowledging their comments. For example, it is conceivable -- although I admit it's unlikely -- that a troll may post a comment that is actually on topic and without personal attacks or rude language. In that case, I make it a practice to respond in kind. The blogger's equivalent of tossing them a bisquit.
And remember this maxim if you are ever tempted to answer an inappropriate comment from a troll.
Man, kick a troll twice and you have a relationship.
As we all know, the conventional wisdom teaches that trolls crave attention and that the right way to handle them is to ignore them. I disagree.
I think operant conditioning -- ignoring bad behavior, but rewarding good behavior -- is a much more promising approach.
While I generally ignore trolls, especially the little personal trolls one picks up at a site like TPM, I do keep my eye open for any chance to reward appropriate behavior by acknowledging their comments. For example, it is conceivable -- although I admit it's unlikely -- that a troll may post a comment that is actually on topic and without personal attacks or rude language. In that case, I make it a practice to respond in kind. The blogger's equivalent of tossing them a bisquit.
And remember this maxim if you are ever tempted to answer an inappropriate comment from a troll.
Man, kick a troll twice and you have a relationship.
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Good advice, possibly. There's one troll in particular (a "pro-Obama" troll who I won't name but that I've suspected is just a Republican trying to stir up animosity) who has been cleaning up its act a little bit.
My concern is that it's just an act, and that once people get used to responding to it, it'll go back to its old ways.
April 28, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I prefer to ridicule trolls. It's more fun.
April 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you are going to ridicule them, do it down thread a little. The trolls won't be smart enough to figure out you're ridiculing them, but the rest of us will get it.
April 28, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
You seem well-versed on trolls. Takes one to know one, huh?
April 28, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy's no troll. He likes to say provocative things (sometimes irrespective of whether he believes them, IMO), but he's not a troll. He's a contrarian, an arguer, but not a troll. If you tell him the sky's blue, he'll look for evidence to dispute that, but he's usually reasonably fair (no, not always) about such things considering his biases.
(Just for the record, I consider myself to also be a bit of a contrarian and arguer, although not to the same degree as Billy.)
April 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
You ridicule everyone, Genghis.
April 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's not true. I have never ridiculed flyonthewall or the zaftig redhead. OK, maybe slight jabs. But trolls are my favorite. Also that baby. You're kind of fun too when you're angry.
I never get trolled anymore. :^( Goatlife sometimes, but he's too good a sport. I think they're afraid of me. It's gotten so quiet that I've had to go looking for them.
Maybe I should put an ad on craigslist. SWM seeks SGT for virtual S&M.
April 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're bragging you haven't ridiculed two people out of thousands of TPM commenters?
You and me, we're like neighbors who share a side lawn with no fence.
April 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I've been meaning to talk to you about what your dog has been leaving in my threads.
April 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. I found you passed out on my front steps after your little drunken Obama rave the other night, so I think you owe me.
Besides, how do you know it's not clearthinker's dog? He lives on the other side of me. And he's the one who's into composting.
April 28, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't own a dog, gasket, only a trampoline.
Next time I throw a party, I'll be sure to invite you.
April 29, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cool. Trampoline party.
I liked your Mr. Kool Aid logo. More entertaining and less pretentious.
April 29, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for your comment. I toyed with the idea of changing his color according to my mood (especially when your pic put me in a 70's frame of mind). However, several people let me know that they thought the avatar made my posts too flip.
Maybe I should animate a gif with the two morphing back and forth.
YOUR picture on the other hand is presumably more recent than the old one -- but the clothes same older than the original!
April 29, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
A trampoline. I confess I've often wondered what that steady, rhythmic noise was coming from your place. I thought it was something else.
Sure, I'd love to jump the trampoline sometime.
April 29, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
You were right the first time, gasket.
April 29, 2008 1:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant. ;-)
April 29, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, you guys have a lot in common with Mila.
When are you going to start comparing dick sizes?
April 29, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
It'd probably be like comparing apples and oranges.
April 29, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or bananas.
April 29, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holds up little finger.
Waves it around, comically.
April 29, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm recommending just for the subject line - brilliant.
Other than ignoring a troll, I think the best weapon a TPM jedi knight can use against the vicious sith troll is an old jedi trick: snarkiness.
April 28, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy's one eggroll short of a combination special.
April 28, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
great, just great... now I'm hungry for egg rolls.
April 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to me that there are many many people here that have control issues. Which, considering that its a "Progressive" site, is troubling and interesting at the same time.
April 28, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think almost everyone has control issues of some kind. Either they're too likely to control others or they're too easily controlled. It's very rare that you find balance, if ever. (I don't believe I've found the proper balance myself.)
April 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
But, you'd admit that it isn't a very Progressive characteristic to be Controlling.
April 28, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, but it is a human characteristic, and I'd argue that most progressives are human. (I'm still quite a bit away from my AIs being intelligent enough to be progressive. In fact, I'm afraid if I released them right now, they'd probably vote for Bush.)
April 28, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Off topic. (As if there is one.) Do you read William Gibson?
April 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, although he's been recommended to me before. I really should read Neuromancer one of these days.
April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive make a trilogy. I mention him because his AIs have well-developed aesthetic senses. I did a split CS/Communications grad program and worked on software that preferred films with high entropy. Entropy good/structure bad. Ford, Welles, Fellini all had numbers. Was trying to get the program to like Westerns better than film noir when I left school for other opportunities. Never got back to it.
April 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have a feeling your not as far away with your AI's as you let on
April 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can contrarians control trolls?
April 28, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are no bad trolls, only weak bloggers. Bloggers have to lead in a way that makes trolls feel secure in following. Remember. Trolls can detect the kinds of emotions they feed on. Try to keep emotion out of your comments. And limit your thoughts to one simple thought per post.
Also, be sure to lock the cat out of the room when you are commenting if there are trolls at the site. My cat got one the other day and it wasn't pretty.
April 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you let your cat eat what it killed? It'd be a shame to waste it. On the other hand, I suppose it could cause gastrointestinal distress.
April 28, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
She jumped out the window with it. I found it on the front porch the next morning. She had chewed it until it looked like a little black turd lying next to a pile of purple and black guts.
April 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
How's your cat? Did you take it to the vet? The thing might've had rabies, after all.
April 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
A pure ass.
April 28, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
The most dangerous kind of troll is the expert Grackler. They are adept at draining positive energy from a post by crapping on it until other commenters get disgusted and leave the thread.
Under no circumstances should you attempt to engage a Grackle on your own unless you have had years of experience dealing with that type of troll behavior.
If you encounter a Grackle in a positive Clinton thread, wait for me, readytoblowagasket, Desidero or some other known Clinton supporter.
If a Grackle is draining energy from a pro-Obama post, wait for Ben, Ghenghis, Urbinato, Articleman, or another known Obama supporter.
Be careful! The Grackle's attack is psychological and it is very powerful.
April 28, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
You should write an encyclopedia of trolls. Or at least a top ten list of types of trolls to be found at TPM (their behaviors, remedies, who is best suited to engage the trolls, etc).
April 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded! So far, Billy's taught us about "Personal Trolls" and "Grackles" -- I can't wait to learn what other species exist in the wild....
April 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am honored to be one of Billy's troll debunkers.
But then there is the paradox of if one of Billy's troll debunkers exhibits troll behaviors. Kind of like the kind people in 28 Days Later after the infected blood splashes on them.
What then? (Sigh.)
April 28, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The cure is too horrible to describe here.
April 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time to add "troll debunker" to your resume.
April 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
But you're not always around! Sometimes I panic and blurt the first thing that comes to mind!
Hey, wait a minute: what positive Clinton threads?
April 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Louisville (no offense intended, Louisville) is an excellent example of what Billy Glad is saying here. When s/he first came online here at TPM, I had s/him pegged as a troll and s/his first posts seemed irrational and offensive. But since then, s/he's gradually transformed into a contributing member of the TPM blogosphere. I was shocked the first time s/he said something that wasn't just an insult/dis on another comment, but I did what Billy Glad advises and responded positively. And just look at Loiusville today!
April 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shows what you know Allsburg. If you would just ask Bionic he will tell you I am a trollish, racist, snarkish, ignoramous.
And it isn't that I've transformed. You've transformed to me. See its all a grand plan....:)
BTW did anyone see the pictures of Jada Pinkett Smith I posted friday. I mean really....what a woman!
April 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, well, Bionic's stock has been descending.
And no, I didn't look at the pictures you posted. Although I no longer think that you're a troll, I still wouldn't put it past you to try to rick roll me like Ben and Genghis.
April 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about Louisville. I'm glad to see that I had underestimated him/her.
April 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
HA! you just wait. Though I am concerned. I am starting to argue with Billy. I think he might have had a gulp or two of the kool-aid.
April 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heh, it's not as though I think you'll be jumping on the Obama bandwagon. But I like (many of) your posts. You're funny, especially to those (like me) who have a sixth-grade sense of humor ...
April 29, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I find no humor in any of this!
April 29, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Billy has been secretly quaffing it, you know that Kool-Aid must be some powerful mind-altering stuff. Come on, you know you're curious ... just a lil sip can't hurt, right?
April 30, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
misunderestimated
April 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's like saying Pan Am's stock has been descending.
April 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
G you should have went for the whole 70's look in the picture. The ladies would have been crawling over you worse than normal. Looks like your ready for the Godfather role. You can play the modern day Michael?
April 28, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I only have one lady after me at TPM. No reaction from her yet as far as I know. But some troll just called the new photo "douchy".
April 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a good effort, Genghis, but if you're going for the full-on '70s look, Genghis, you'll need to abandon modesty, lose the white T-shirt, and show some chest hair. Preferably with a large gold medallion.
April 29, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I tried that with Matthew Weaver, but he got worse.
April 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
But see, the problem is that Matthew Weaver's not a troll. He's worse: he's angry, bitter and sincere.
April 28, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what's worse, he appears to have reproduced.
April 28, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think some of the trolls are angry, bitter, and sincere.
But it would be nice if Matthew Weaver would be hectored by everyone to write something positive about Hillary Clinton. I mean, I know voting is a binary function and some negative is fine, but he has no positive in him ever.
So if everyone said that to him when he appeared, clutching Allsburg in each arm, it would be good.
April 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Binary function? I don't even know what that means..
April 28, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, technically a binary function is a function that maps from R²→R, but I believe what he means in this context is that wanting X to win implies wanting (not X) to lose.
April 28, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I miss Matthew's old avatar. I liked the idea that his brain was being eaten by a badger.
April 29, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here is an example of responding to a troll attack in a downstream comment.
Many trolls are not capable of insults more sophisticated than comments like takes one to know one. Everyone ignores trolls of this caliber. Some, however, are capable of using expressions like ass that have more than one possible meaning. They are also capable of metaphor and simile, although there is no known example of a troll actually using metonyms.
April 28, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another your another one. :)
April 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I have an exception. My new favorite troll is RenStimpy. The one with the fat David statue. Definitely an anti-Obama troll. Nothing but insults. But always witty and often hilarious. And its posts have a consistent, almost poetic, format:
SARCASTIC TITLE
Derogatory body
Sincerely,
Republican bad guy, e.g. Jerry Falwell
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
I wonder if it will make an appearance.
April 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It posted today about the gun that killed Vince Foster and Colombian coke for Hillary, so I think it's a Republican troll, or maybe even beyond politics, is simply an asshole.
April 28, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, no, that was snark. It's a snarking troll. That was a sarcastic response to a Peter Paul comment in which it implied that the commenter was buying into Republican conspiracy theories.
Here's the post you were referring too:
Here's another clever insult targeted at a commenter who complained about its nude avatar.
But it's definitely anti-Obama. It only goes after Obama supporters.
April 28, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it comes here, we'll use it for a class project.
April 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you see the one that made a brief hit-and-run downthread to insult my pic? Makes me happy that I didn't take your advice and switch to an avatar.
April 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
don't change the pic dude
change the shirt
April 28, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. And you might consider seeing a dermatologist.
April 28, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't listen to 'em, G. That shirt is boss.
April 29, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good to see you back, DF. I had a whole thread just waiting for a pertinent comment from you...!
April 29, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry I missed it. Thermodynamics and petrodollars. Hopefully I'll be around for the next one.
April 29, 2008 3:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a vetran troll of the most brutal depths of the intrawebs, I must say that while what Billy is saying is for the most part true, the most dangerous and skilled of trolls are the ones that can formulate a seemingly perfect response made up of what appears to be hard evidence (Quotes, screencaps, article clips, etc...) and built so that while they know what they write can be countered and proved untrue, it requires too much effort to do so and the average readers just give up. Though occasionally someone will call out the troll on his elaborate post, it will be isolated and not a clear victory for rationality.
April 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are obviously a veteran troll whisperer. I encountered one like that once. It damn near killed me.
April 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are a few I can think of that are just like that, right here.
:)
April 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
omg, one of those got me twice! I was up till 5 am writing well-researched comment briefs for 4 consecutive nights. I just figured it out only recently. Duh! The damage to my self-esteem is . . . let's just say I can relate to the Democratic Party. The word riven comes to mind.
April 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
In a scene out of Alfred Hitchcock's movie "The Birds," grackles, with their noise and defecation, are becoming a problem in Lubbock.
Lubbock Department of Animal Services Manager Fred Sanderson said the black birds migrate and become a nuisance, not only to Lubbock, but also to other major Texas cities.
"Homeowners can do lots of things (to help alleviate the problem)," he said. "Motion activated lawn sprinklers, fake birds of prey (can be used)."
Bird traps can be used, but the grackles will just come back, Sanderson said. But when the birds are gone, removing grackles' nesting areas can be helpful.
Businesses and municipal governments, have more of a dilemma eradicating the birds., Sanderson said.
"It's not legal to kill them; migratory birds are protected," he said. "You have to take each area site-specifically."
Some places use shotgun blasts, Sanderson said, but then the grackles just move to another area.
"We can disrupt their feeding patterns," he said. "Food, water, shelter - you have to disrupt one of those."
According to birds.cornell.edu, grackles eat insects, worms and small vertebrates like tadpoles, fish and lizards and plants and garbage.
On the other hand, the Aplomado Falcon, the red-tailed hawk and the burrowing owl are grackle predators, according to the Web site.
Leasing Consultant for The Heritage Apartments Missi Wilson said the birds have been a problem in the past.
"The problem isn't as bad as it was last year," she said. "It's always been a small problem, but it has never been complained about (by residents)."
The grackles do not cause much trouble, Wilson said, so no action has been taken to address the issue.
"They do poop all over everything, and they're loud and screechy," she said. "I don't like grackles."
To do something about the grackles, Wilson said, someone's to filing a complaint about the birds is necessary.
"We have other people that are more worried about bees, leaky toilets," she said. "(The birds) come a certain time each year. I think the problem was more a couple years back."
Kamesha Boldon, a Texas Tech student in the Health Sciences Center School of Nursing and resident at the Heritage Apartments, said grackles are annoying.
"They wake me up in the morning," she said. "That's all I hear is those birds."
Since trees are near almost every parking spot, Boldon said, birds frequently cover her car in feces, which is a major health concern, she said.
"One time it was like black poop on my car," she said. "You don't want to touch that stuff. I have to pay to get my car washed. It's costing me money."
A possible solution, Boldon said, would be to put some birdhouses on the perimeter of the parking lot.
Boldon said she has never told management about the problem because she did not believe anything could be done to solve the bird dilemma.
"I moved here in October, and pretty much it has been consistent until now, as far as them cackling every morning before sunrise," she said.
April 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I commend Billy for mentioning trolls in his title. Mentioning trolls = two thumbs way up!
(Mentioning trolls is the sixth of my ten tips for writing a successful TPM post.) See http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/ten-tips-on-how-to-write-a-suc.php#comments
Indeed, the Baby abused this hallowed principle by writing posts mentioning trolls every day until the board finally stopped recommending, because he conjoined troll-reference with something about William Henry Harrison, or maybe Nikolai Tesla, I forget.
April 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't blame me if I was trying to use the 10 principles to enlighten and educate the TPM masses. Or that it all ended in a horrible scientific experiment gone awry involving that transmutation device from The Fly.
April 28, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of The Fly, on a thread the other day, someone asked, "What has Bill Clinton become?"
And I posted the one word comment,
"Brundlefly."
Boy that was fun to type again.
April 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the late '80s there was a graffiti artist in Seattle called "the fly" who went around painting flies and signing them "the fly."
Then a rival graffiti artist started going around to all of the fly drawings and added the words: "eats shit."
(Unless the fly itself was doing it.)
April 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only a habitue of message boards would even think that a graffiti artist would self-critically deface their art in an alternative persona.
I wonder how many people on this site have a second persona.
April 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how many don't.
April 28, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm starting a "TPM Needs Better Trolls" competition and could use everyone's input so that we can improve the quality of trolling here at TPM:
http://tinyurl.com/657d4d
It's time for a CHANGE!!!
April 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm...a troll competition? That's a horrible idea. It'll never work.
April 28, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I kicked ass. I wuz robbed.
April 28, 2008 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
What an absurd notion
April 28, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
nice job looking even douchier in your new profile pic! love the collar.
April 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
You noticed! I'm touched.
April 28, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that a typo, Genghis? Shouldn't it be:
I'm douched?
April 29, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know how this even makes sense, but you look shorter in this photo than in the other.
April 28, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you are, what, about 16 inches?
April 28, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm 27 inches, you bastard. And I'll let you know, that's the 90th Percentile for my age.
April 28, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we have a new category to go with trolls. Ghengis and Allsburg are hobbits.
April 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The vicious "hobbit" smear. As if this one hasn't made the rounds on the right wing blogs. Next you'll be referring to me by my middle name, "Bilbo". And by the way I have no reason to think that Allsburg is anything other than a fat 16 inch baby.
April 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Better than being a dwarf, or an orc.
April 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
But being a Ringwraith is pretty cool. Though don't get a lot of dates.
April 28, 2008 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I meant it as a complement. I go by Bilbo as well. We may whine a bit (especially Frodo) but, who else could we trust to carry the ring.
April 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sam can't be trusted...he's supports Hillary.
April 28, 2008 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the Moses basket. It draws the eye across. Like horizontal stripes, or breasts.
April 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Braggart.
April 29, 2008 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
This comment totally ended up in the wrong place.
April 29, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mine, too.
April 29, 2008 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are so many good responses to that line, but I'm sure that workerbee will immediately move us in the "appropriate" direction as she seems to have it on her mind (see her comment above).
April 29, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Where is elliotness? Did allsburg run his ass off?
April 28, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
He lost the tpm-aholics logo-off to workerbee, went on a drinking binge, and checked himself into rehab. They're saving a spot for Hillary too.
April 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
He hasn't lost yet. I was wondering if we couldn't have a "blinking" logo. Why decide? use 'm both
:)
Or you could change them once a week or so, at strange moments. Keep the place fresh.
April 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neither has Hillary.
April 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Officially, no. But his campaign is dead man walking. As is Hillary's.
April 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary will win when the math endorses her!
You're nothing but a drunk, doucy, hobbit-toed, snarky Judas.
April 28, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
eat me, troll
April 28, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Welcome to Snarky's, TPM's well-known Bar and Grill. (Okay, the food's a bit underheated and mushy, but the level of intoxication is acceptable).
April 28, 2008 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
"It's not a pickup bar, it's a put-down bar"? I'll have two to go.
April 28, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Snarkys"
Where everyone knows your avatar.
April 28, 2008 10:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've got two words for you amateurs and armchair troll-evisceratuers:
Fred Dobbs.
(see http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2006/09/12/not_so_radical/ )
Now that was a troll. It landed one weekend when Josn had the misfortune of being linked by Drudge.
What a fabulous weekend it was! (For hunting trolls, anyway)
:)
Now I miss Howard and Valdron. (sigh)
April 28, 2008 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Dobbs campaign reached its nadir when he (it) assumed near-clone identities of our main warrior, Howard. Eventually the mighty hand of site administrator came down and smote the fearsome Fred.
I'm still kind of mystified by that sequence, though. Dobbs started off as a gadfly Republican, kind of like Sarge Wallace. He devolved into a raving lunatic, or some kind of blogging Tourette's equivalent, with pit stops at anti-semitism and racism. He'd be over the top re Obama, I'd guess.
April 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, how did you reach that archive?
April 28, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
An old bookmark.
It's weird how the entries aren't in order.
Hopefully they'll fix that. I dunno, I can't get in. Maybe it's cuz I have an older mac.
April 28, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would very much like to read a Billy Glad screenplay of the same title. Bonus points offered for casting Javier Bardem.
April 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I'm noticing is so far the real trolls are shunning this thread. No doubt they fear we will trap them and take them to the troll shelter where, if they aren't adopted in two weeks, they will have to be put to sleep.
April 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is Bob Barker reminding you to spay and neuter your trolls.
April 28, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
(runs into thread)
(kisses Billy)
(spots DF)
(kisses him too)
(runs out)
April 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Burnt again
(spits on the ground and pretends that he's not crying on the inside)
April 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys have matching shirts.
April 28, 2008 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Leisure suits making a comeback? It's EXCELLENT! For Hillary!!!
April 28, 2008 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Umn, no.
Genghis is wearing what can only be called a decidedly peach color.
My shirt is burgundy. To go with my grey suit.
(sigh)
April 28, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Decidedly not peach. Better check your monitor settings.
April 29, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Salmon, even worse.
April 29, 2008 8:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Buzz!!! It's more of reddish orange.
April 29, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, Genghis. As if I didn't like you too.
Sheez.
April 28, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey gasket. How's it going? Cool thread, huh?
(pretends to ignore LisB)
April 28, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude! I was just about to walk the troll. Be right over!
April 28, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, do you know that woman over there? She seems like she knows you.
April 28, 2008 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just some chick I used to know. Is she looking at me?
April 28, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh-huh.
April 28, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
No she's not.
April 28, 2008 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would you do me a huge favor? I'm going to whisper something in your ear. Pretend it's the funniest thing that you've ever heard.
(whispers "THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!! FOR HILLARY!!!!")
April 28, 2008 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
rofl!
April 28, 2008 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're the best. I owe you.
April 28, 2008 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but did you laugh your ass off?
April 28, 2008 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, Lis!!! Is that Genghis over there? Looking all luscious in Vermillion?
April 28, 2008 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where's DF, dammit?
April 28, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
He just complimented my shirt upthread. Glad someone likes it. But have you ever wondered whether your boy DF plays for the other team?
April 29, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
What, a guy can't compliment another guy's shirt? Are we not post-homophobia enough for that yet? I mean, I could see that it might be questionable if I had said something about your shoes...
April 29, 2008 3:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just wondered why you were up there telling me about my shirt when Lis was drooling for you down here. Thanks, BTW. I'll have to wear it at the next results party so that people can evaluate the color. Assuming that anyone from TPM deigns to make an appearance.
April 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
What do you expect from a bunch of elitists?
April 29, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once I tamed a troll by laughing at it when it decapitated me. It was so used to being yelled at, it didn't know how to respond to laughter. Like it had never heard it before. It became instantly docile and peed on the floor.
April 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Having adopted two angry male cats from the North Shore Animal League almost two years ago, and having turned them into little wussie lap cats, I can safely say that I know how to tame a wild animal.
Trolls, on the other hand....they're hard to be gentle with. But I try.
With a cat, you start slowly with the touching. But you start right away. You touch their head first, a lot. Stroking it. Always stroking it.
They start to feel important, and therefore comfortable.
Then you stroke them from the head down to the shoulders. Over and over again. They start to purr. Once they start to purr, you stroke them from the head all the way down the back, to the tail. They start to purr loudly. So then you stroke them from the head down to the tail and then you grab their tail into the air -- and then let go.
Pretty soon, the darn things are sticking their asses in your face, ready for another stroke.
April 28, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Things have gotten very kinky in here.
April 28, 2008 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
anneeliz, thanks for your help upthread. I commented down here so Lis wouldn't notice. Do you think she's wavering?
April 28, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dunno. I've been delicately sipping Crown Royal shots and everything's a bit blurry.
April 28, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, you're looking a little off-color.
April 29, 2008 12:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is one of my all time favorite threads on TPM.
April 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's because you love Seinfeld threads. What impresses me are the Hillbots and Obamaniacs chillin' in da thread. It's like West Side Story, but no one dies.
[It doesn't compare to the voyage to THE OTHER SIDE though. That was transforming.]
April 28, 2008 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
So when do we break into song?
April 28, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
"When you're a troll
you're a troll
all the way
from your first snarky post
'til they cart you away!"
(From "When You're a Jet", West Side Story)
April 28, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't sing, but I am totally doing that cool finger-clicking walk bit.
April 29, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Finger-clicking"? Do you, by chance, mean snapping?
April 29, 2008 12:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh snap!
April 29, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just posted a particularly antiJeremiah Wright snark.
And it occurs to me that the election is a thread, and at this point, Wright is a troll in it.
April 28, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like Obama's personal troll who can't be kicked off, because the Democratic Party, like this site, has no effective admin.
April 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you're gonna flog your past, at least give us the link:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/reverend-wright-continues-to-n.php
I see that you already lured in Otto F. Nice.
April 28, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Was going to invite Otto from there to here.
Just kidding.
But Clinton and Obama supporters alike could appreciate roasting the new, publicity-hungry Rev., I would think. Maybe not. Might be too idealistic.
I honestly wasn't trying to shill for my post, as much as I really think Wright's the troll in the thread of this election. I was trying to think of how Billy's rules might apply to him. Maybe we talk to him only if he acts in a way that isn't overtly injurious of our goal of winning the election.
April 28, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hard to convey how freaky it is to see my name bandied about.
My name is Mudd.
April 28, 2008 11:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wrighteous.
April 29, 2008 6:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever happened to Ben Vasquez
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/profile/Ben%20Vasquez
posting in 2006 to mid-2007?
We couldn't decide if he represented an experiment in computer-generated comments, as his comments seemed to be random riffs on key words from the thread, or if they were the result of bad language-translation software.
He never responded to queries (sometimes earnest attempts to figure out what he meant, more often WTF), was never belligerent, never personal, didn't post often enough to be disruptive.
April 28, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
On Ben V I'm going with accidental artificial intelligence. First Ghost in the Machine sighting here.
April 28, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've noticed a disturbing trend. Since Billy has nuetered himself(so to speak) his threads have become longer....or at least last longer...the Matrix has taken control of him...
April 28, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
While they all awaited the arrival of the trolls and grackles, they all became trolls and grackles themselves. . . .
April 28, 2008 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still not a troll in sight. They're all over on the top threads, drawn like moths to the flame of the Clinton's overt sexuality and other scandalous topics. Time for this thread to die.
April 29, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
depressed guy..
i don't know about this place
it's more fun to riff on the serious people
April 29, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, thanks for stopping by. You've been a riot.
April 29, 2008 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Happily, it time for bed soon. I'm sure that when we wake up in the morning, littleblackpropaganda will have left his dirty fingerprints all over it.
April 29, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
... and then the sun came up and they all turned to stone.
April 29, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
And we have a winner, folks. workerbee takes the logo-off in a landslide. Sorry, elliotness. There's always 2012.
April 29, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a question:
Has there even been anyone who received an epiphany here on the basis of the blogs and changed their opinion? (No fair, changing the opinion as a result of outside influences or independent analyses... it has to have originated from something seen here.)
I'm betting not. Which leads me to MyTheory[tm]:
There are no such things as trolls... but we invent them to pretend that the blogs on TPM matter to more than a tiny group of people that read them regularly.
With that said, this is sort of like telling ghost stories around a campfire.
April 29, 2008 12:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't had any epiphanies, but I've learned a lot. Both from smart bloggers and by doing research in order to put together my own posts. That counts for something.
April 29, 2008 1:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, it does. But I thought the point of trollers was to net a change-of-mind. In which case, have they even been successful?
April 29, 2008 2:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
This still confuses me. The working definition of troll that I've always understood on the Internet is that it is someone who is intentionally inflaming the discussion for their own amusement. In other words, they have no sincerity or intention of contributing anything to the discussion, but rather hope to bait people into offering up emotionally reactive responses in order to laugh and feel impressed with their ability to get a rise out of someone.
I'm really not sure exactly what the definition is here, but I'm pretty sure that it's different than the one I've given. Billy's idea of a "personal troll" seems to confirm this in that I think there are probably at least a couple of people that he puts in this category that like to argue with him because they consistently disagree with him. I know I've argued with him at times, but I don't consider him a troll and I would hope that he grants me the same status.
By the same token there are times where I think Billy himself could be considered a troll in that he's not adding anything to the discussion, but rather dropping a quick one-liner meant simply to agitate. Again, I don't consider him a troll because I've seen that this is not his modus operandi and that he will regularly offer a genuine point of view (and most of the time he's just ribbing someone), but this is the sort of behavior that, as I've always understood it, is characteristic of the troll.
And there are some definite, according-to-Hoyle trolls that roam this forum. However, it seems like I've seen this definition given the silly putty treatment in these parts.
Then again, the political discourse around here has been so lacking lately that I pretty much surf in anticipation of snark and meta-posts at the moment, so I can easily forgive playing loose with the definition in the name of entertainment.
April 29, 2008 3:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your definition of troll matches mine, and I agree the term is overused. There are probably no more than 10 trolls total on this site.
/me enumerates them in his head…
Only 7 come to mind right now, but there are probably a few less frequent ones that I'm not thinking about. (And no, Lalo, Matthew, and Desidero do not match my definition of troll.)
April 29, 2008 8:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is classic DF.
April 29, 2008 8:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Typing "LOL" here simply will not suffice. Billy, that was awesome and I laughed very hard. This thread is fantastic.
April 29, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I liken it to the verb as in "Trolling for comments (or suckers)..."
Maybe I've spent too much time fishin'....
April 29, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a reformed troll. I have surfaced from the dark depths of wingnut sewage. When I first signed on at TPM I had the most urgent need to troll but I restrained myself. I'm practicing good behavior so that it will become a habit. Barfing Baby Allsburg's troll contest blogposts were a challenge but I passed. I submerged my troll self and proffered a false troll self. My reward was that I did not win. I was so grateful. I am now a full member of TA (Trolls Anonymous).
Although, I must admit, Weaver really pushes my buttons. I seriously toyed with the idea of a new identity so as to take him on. But I forwent. Even so, Fat David (renstimpy) and his trollery acts upon me as a siren song. I resist because I suspect it is none other than Buggeroff. I deduced this from things it said in some of it's early posts. And I will not dance with Buggeroff.
I always work very hard to ignore both Weaver and renstimpy. Every now and then Billy Glad pushes my troll buttons. I take a swig of Crown Royal and subvert myself because Billy is, at the very least, authentic.
It is hard work. But I have Crown Royal and Hillary's example.
*downing a shot*
April 29, 2008 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad to hear that you've mastered your inner troll. That means that you can become a troll whisperer. Like reformed hackers who become security consultants.
No, Buggeroff is Mila/Milla/MillaJ, the orgasmic troll. You can tell because it's first name is Milorad, it spells school as "skool", and it's blatantly sexist and racist--lots of comments about "AA's" being stupid. Amazing that it keeps coming back for more banning.
RenStimpy is much cleverer and, I daresay, funnier than Milla. Be careful with it b/c it's very snarkful. Earnest argument will only get you a ridiculing. I wish it would come after me. That would would be fun.
April 29, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Respectfully disagree. Just offering my opinion informed by troll skillz.
I never perceived Millorad (and all its nyms) to be stupid. It most certainly pretended to be.
It had/has a good understanding of markets and other cultures, just like renstimpy. It had/has a sense of linguistic play, just like renstimpy. It hates all things AA, like renstimpy. It slants to the sexual, like renstimpy. The only thing renstimpy has not proclaimed to yet thus far, are the underage lovers that its alter-nyms of the Mila group are so proud about. I'm looking at linguistic affinity between the two personas. There are similar themes, obsessions and more importantly, language play.
April 29, 2008 3:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Slants sexual and anti-AA, yes. But it's barbs are much tigher and sharper than Mila's. Mila isn't funny at all. RS is genuinely funny. Mila also has trademarks: "law skool", "brother", "cream in your pants", etc. Every incarnation uses them. RS doesn't. Finally, RS has an avatar. No Mila has ever had one.
I just noticed that Mila used a Brit spelling for "enamoured", so that could offer some evidence for your analysis.
April 29, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
They actually ban people here?
April 29, 2008 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. That's why Milla keeps coming back with a new screen name. If you look at its old profiles, the comments just stop. I think it's hard to banned here though. You have to be blatantly offensive like Milla. Goatlife and dembillc both said that they got banned at Coz (a touching moment of troll affection, actually), but they're allowed to rant happily here. I hope that RenStimpy doesn't get banned. It seems to hover pretty close to the line, so it might.
April 29, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I asked Josh to ban RenStimpy. One look at the comment string is enough.
April 29, 2008 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh man. Tom, you're such a party pooper.
April 29, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, you and I really differ on taste there. I've greatly enjoyed a majority of RenStimpy's skewering comments, most of them are brilliant humor, and a very welcome addition to the site since the changeover. I think he's far more talented than Michael Berube, the level of sophistication of the humor is higher for the most part, and he's doing it off the cuff in quickie comments, while Berube has to think about it. I think he's worthy of his own show on Comedy Central, better quality than a lot of stuff on Jon Stewart.
If this place is going to be all politics all the time, I'd much rather spend infotainment time here reading the comments of a RenStimpy than the all too common blubbering in Reader Blogs about what a wonderful human being Barack Obama is, with comment shout outs along the lines of hallelujah, me too, I just love Obama so much, I haven't had such a crush since Paul McCartney, or some such, where I find myself embarassed for the commenter and feel I have walked in on a private pre-teen pajama party.
But overall, liking a moderated site, I am not going to kvetch too much if some talent is swept up in the hopper of warnings and bannings, that's the price you pay and it is up to the commenter to make himself/herself acceptable to the management. But I think RenStimpy is up to the job if he gets a warning, I think he's that smart. He's made me laugh aloud several times with delight in the savviness of his humor and some very subtle digs that only political cognescenti would get.
April 29, 2008 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Let me be even clearer: I'm a big fan of his comments so far, there's only a few that are "off," since I first saw him turn up on an M.J. Rosenberg thread and tease him about coming out loud and proud about his man-love for Obama. It was soooo spot on and hilarious and even Rosenberg played along. Since then, I find myself checking for his comments by going to his page, before looking at much else here. I would ask that if management bans him, he continues to use the same user name so I can find his comments on another site via google, really, I like them that much. I would also suggest to him: less is more, don't overdo it, don't post it unless it's tight and good.
April 29, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
art?
Did hell freeze over?
:D
YOU appreciate a TROLL?!!!
Good grief!!! Welcome, ma'am. Welcome.
April 29, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
workerbee,
He doesn't fit my definition of internet troll in the least. He's more in the good old tradition of court jester or holy fool with a bit of heckler thrown in. (That's where Ren & Stimpy comes in, they are lowest common denominator joe schmos, and they heckle about stuff--it also reminds of that old Mystery Science 3000 show where the shadowy guys made cracks about the movies as they are playing--he does it with blog commenting.) A troll's raison d'etre is to rile your emotions enough to get you to engage in long useless debates, usually through continual personal insults or to misrepresent your views and make you into a straw man. This guy so far does seem to be here to debate, he only answers if personally challenged. And what I have seen of him so far is that he mostly (very skillfully) follows the golden rule of good forum behavior of "attack the argument, not the other commenter." He attacks arguments by ridiculing them, and that's potent, lethal stuff if you do it well (Saturday Night Live writers are in the same biz.) He's almost the opposite of a troll, as he's not interested in fighting, he's seeking the righteous trollish to parody, he actually seems to have a fine eye for political agitprop.
April 30, 2008 3:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right on, art. How did you even find this thread? It's been off-list for hours. But yeah, renstimpy's good. Hasn't been banned yet as far as I can tell.
April 30, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I got here by checking out Tom Wright's comments. Since they fixed the comments, I've been navigating by looking at the comments of users that I know that look for and get involved in interesting discussions.
Previously, I had not been making do at all since they took the global tracker away with the new software, and mainly sticking to the front page. But since they finally fixed the "Last 10 comments" of user pages, I've started to surf using the comments pages of members I know who tend to get involved in nuanced discussions. If you use this url
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/profile/
and type the user name at the end, after a day or two, you end up with a bunch of good addresses in the drop-down of your browser address bar to surf with. It's certainly not an ideal workaround for a global tracker to find good conversations, especially as you've still got to use your browser search to get you to the comment on the thread (how stupid is that of the programmers not to think we would want a list of our comments but without direct links to them?), but it's something.
I found it keeps me away from reading a lot of pap and getting riled by trollish or idiotic (small I) conversations, especially if I skip down to the comment that got me there, to a sub-conversation. I am sorry, go ahead and call me an elitist pig, but I find the voting habits of the current audience here as to best Reader Blogs mostly to be a totally useless sorting tool. I'll go further, mho, it's dangerous to get involved in looking too heavily at "Most Recommended," you can come away seriously depressed along the lines of "oh the humanity," holding your shaking head in your hands. :-)
Cavaet on that url: for users with user names that have a space, you have to put %20 into the url where the space is, like Tom's:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/profile/Tom%20Wright
April 30, 2008 3:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're an elitist prig.
Yeah, the rec list has gotten really bad. Someone, I think it was littleblackpropaganda, proposed a standing thread for regulars to recommend good posts. We could check that thread and rec the hell out of posts there. The drawback is that the cafe would become to insular, which is, I think, a real risk. We seem to be caught between incest and tripe. Everyone once in a while, a great post by a new blogger squeaks through, but it's rare.
Thanks. I know the profile thing, but there are too many people whose comments I'm interested in to use it effectively.
FYI, if you ever have trouble finding an old thread (since the search functionality sucks), I use Google with the site keyword, e.g.
site:talkingpointsmemo.com artappraiser troll
April 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for pulling me out, Billy, I almost got stuck over there, though the honey pot analogy was pretty appropriate - a slaughter of flies it was. Even brought back a reunion of lost souls to face lost trolls. Fortunately you picked up that they were replicants, didn't have their own memories. With the first wavers it was easier to spot their implants. This bunch is just all over the place.
April 29, 2008 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
To bring it back on-discussion, I've been on a troll roll, in and out the chakras we go, but I need some down time, shelter from the storm. Recharge, regroup. Can't promise I'll stay long, starship trooper and all, but is good to remember the word - gets lost in all the dust and haze.
April 29, 2008 1:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've been practicing and modifying a technique I learned from Burroughs, "El Hombre Invisible" - when he'd walk through the streets of Mexico City, he'd try seeing people before they saw him and inevitably they'd walk by him without noticing him. Quite often if I get first response on a post, it simply dies, whatever the content. Other times, I notice that if I say something pertinent on a thread, it just lies there like unpicked fruit - I can go back through a post and follow my evolutionary dead ends, so many frozen lines. But if I say something snarky and trollish, the responses come flying out. And again, perhaps it's the programming - there were only so many lines of logic they received and all revolved around attack-and-respond scenarios like primitive Turing Machines - no background cognition, like autonomic afferant behavior, simply reflex/instinct trained. There may be several layers to the trollishness, and some may be completely sublimated, but I think we can develop a strategy based on a hierarchy of trolls. Certainly engaging them overtly is the wrong move, but if we can get them off axis, they're easier to flip, and once we've got their soft underbellies exposed, ZAP!
April 29, 2008 2:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
chimpo
not much going on here
are you doing drugs?
April 29, 2008 4:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
No doing - they don't metabolize right under weightlessness.
April 29, 2008 4:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cypher. The troll patrol has gone to sleep. It's just you and me. Any chance I can get you into a real political dialogue? I have the feeling that you are smarter than you let on.
April 29, 2008 4:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Old Guy...you be a bit of a seriouso, a mountain castrato singing an obbligato.
I have to become a real person in a few hours to go to work.
One last trip to a porno site and it's nighty nite.
Old guy...I'm still down with your pic.
It takes some 'tude to buck the existential, decontructed post-pop-modernism inhabiting these beings.
April 29, 2008 4:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Take the old guy with you. Get him laid.
April 29, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Phantom hope, elusive quest
Life is but a dream at best,
And even dreams themselves are dreams.
Know the author? None here will. Goodnight.
April 29, 2008 5:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pedro Calderón de la Barca
April 29, 2008 6:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good morning, everybody! Are we learning yet?
April 29, 2008 7:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
We is larning.
They is larning us.
Good morning.
April 29, 2008 7:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy, are you Dora the Explorer?
April 29, 2008 7:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy:
I've been reluctant to come here because all the folks around here come up with witty things to write, and I'm like the windows guy on that MAC commercial. But someday I hope to be a troll whisperer too.
Bruce
April 29, 2008 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently, identity theft is possible on these blogs.
There is a blog called Most Expensive Blowjob in History up now that I didn't write. Somehow my name got attached to it. Impressive. Must take a lot of work to pull something like that off.
Downstream is a real troll, trying to get attention by dissing African Americans.
We don't have to be witty to be hilarious. We just have to accurately describe what's going on.
April 29, 2008 8:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't make me question the genius of Stewart and Colbert, please.
April 29, 2008 8:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I warned this would happen.
Of course, I also put the idea in everybody's head.
April 29, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're prescient for your age.
April 29, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the things trolls do for us is set the limits of discourse. They make it easy to see the line none of us -- Clintonistas or Obamanauts -- would normally cross. Confines us all together in a common, shared sanity where we can hope to resolve our differences. The troll chooses to remain out of bounds.
April 29, 2008 9:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Prowling the wasteland just beyond the limits of society.
April 29, 2008 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
The troll as a unifer?
Could be. Unless they're one of those subtle ones. The common vulgar troll is just what we used to call "attention whores," I think.
Not terribly interesting, but fun to poke a stick at.
April 29, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
workerbee:
That is the best avatar I have seen. You have motivated me to get my own, except that I am a luddite when it comes to computers and have no idea how to do it. I'll just admire yours.
Bruce
April 29, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's just like uploading a file, Bruce.
Find a pic you like and I'll be happy to walk you through it. It would be great if your posts were easier to find. I consider them to be required reading.
:)
April 29, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://ontology.buffalo.edu/smith/clinton/morrison.html
African-American men seemed to understand it right away. Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black President. Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime. After all, Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas. And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, when the President's body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution, when he was metaphorically seized and bodysearched, who could gainsay these black men who knew whereof they spoke? The message was clear "No matter how smart you are, how hard you work, how much coin you earn for us, we will put you in your place or put you out of the place you have somehow, albeit with our permission, achieved. You will be fired from your job, sent away in disgrace, and--who knows?--maybe sentenced and jailed to boot. In short, unless you do as we say (i.e., assimilate at once), your expletives belong to us."
April 29, 2008 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Reg: Furthermore, it is the birthright of every man—
Stan: Or woman.
Reg: Why don't you shut up about women, Stan? You're putting us off.
Stan: Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.
Francis: Why are you always on about women, Stan?
Stan: I want to be one.
Reg, Francis: What?
Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me "Loretta."
Reg: Wha'?
Loretta: It's my right as a man.
Judith: Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Loretta: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!
Loretta: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But... you can't have babies.
Loretta: Don't you oppress me!
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan, you haven't got a womb! Where's the fetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?
[Stan/Loretta starts to cry.]
Judith: Here! I-I've got an idea. Suppose that you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb—which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans'—but that he can have the right to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.
Reg: Wh-what's the point?
Francis: Wha'?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression!
Reg: Symbolic of his struggle against reality, more like...
April 29, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you actually reply to that troll? I'm beginning to see a pattern here. NYC? Apparently, New Yorkers find it impossible to ignore anyone.
April 29, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
lol! No, I was doing what you were doing, just broadening the shared space of sanity. Using a different cultural artifact. I thought it was appropriate. Here's the clip. Enjoy.
April 29, 2008 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant. MP has come up a lot this campaign.
April 29, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it wants to interact, it has to say something really positive. Protestations of empathy don't count.
April 29, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
You vanquished it!
April 29, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wish. Actually, I think it got banned again.
April 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
A chunk of the thread got scrubbed. More after-hours back-alley back-and-forth between Cypher and donnerpass that I unwittingly stepped into the middle of, possibly Desidero did, too. I can't remember now; it was dark, the conversation inscrutable. Yet they left Cypher's porno reference. Go figure.
Creepy as it was in its entirety, I wish the thread had remained intact, if only as an object lesson in how to conjure trolls.
April 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
poof! It's gone. I hope it didn't take Genghis with it.
Thanks for the tutorial, Billy.
April 29, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Boy. They really jumped on it. It really does push the limits. It's found out that we feel guilty if we don't answer the things it says. Interesting.
April 29, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
We tumbled down a great crevasse and did battle. I have returned but much changed, wiser and more powerful. My shirt is gray now. And I have flowing white beard.
April 29, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to be an immortal troll. It comes back, each time stronger. I have the feeling we haven't seen the last of it. Someone needs to behead it.
April 29, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, found your trolls....they are here;
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/is-hillary-behind-arranging-re.php
And yes, I am amongst them.
April 29, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Funny. I never thought of you as a troll. My guys weren't over there. When they check in, you know it.
April 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
I used to think of Louisville as a half-troll, but happily, your human side seems to have gained control. And what is with that post? And the Peter Paul ones yesterday? I don't care about trolls in the threads--indeed I kinda like'em--but I do not think that troll posts should be allowed on the recommended list.
April 29, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're doing the pod people thing, they spawn off a new one and have enough critical mass to send it straight up to low orbit. They keep packing 'em in - even when we take out a few it's not enough to slow them down. Jesus, they beat out Billy 5:1 even with 250 posts. But I think he hit on it earlier with the memory thing - they start to glitch when you dig into their past - too much white space - they have filler, but it's just a patchwork. I don't know if it's enough to take them out, but it's a better shot than anything else I've seen. It's too bad we can't get a virtual eye in on them - I'd like to see their tics, see if any smoke or steam comes off them. Are they still electromechanical or are these the phased in ones using composites? Time for some stress testing.
April 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goddammit, I feel like I'm spending more time snarking Obama supporters than Clinton supporters these days. Ah well. Has to be done...
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/is-hillary-behind-my-brain-dys.php
April 29, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
How in the hell did this get so many recommendations? This has to be one of the lamest, most-transparent conspiracy theories that I've seen getting play here.
April 29, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, the post about bringing up Bill Clinton's age-old affairs gets 162 Recommendations and you come sniping at us for 37? Satan, get thee hence.
April 29, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must have missed that one. But it's all due to the Hillaria epidemic.
April 30, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uhh.. I wasn't talking about this thread. No one is "sniping" after you, Hillary. I was talking about the link above:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/is-hillary-behind-arranging-re.php
Which is apparently accusing Clinton of somehow using Wright against Obama (the conspiracy theory I was referring to). See, there's this little link called 'Reply' which allows you to relate a comment to a specific posts, but it only works if people like you are hip to the concept. Can you dig it?
April 30, 2008 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, I'd never noticed that button before, thanks much, Obi Wan.
Sometimes the tree structure gets a bit obscure at 3am and sometimes the comments are vague enough not to pin down attributes accurately. And the dog ate m'homework.
April 30, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
This thread is dead. Move along. Move along.
April 30, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink