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Update: Statement from John Lott about mother-in-law's death in Sweden
An update to his earlier post, "Roger Lott (my son) v. Barack Obama"
UPDATE: I have gotten some emails asking about Roger's grandmother, his mom's mom, who died in Sweden. His grandmother was complaining of abdominal pain and got an appointment with a GP. The GP set up an appointment with a specialist, but she had to wait about three months before the first opening was available. The week before her appointment with the specialist she had to be rushed to a hospital for emergency surgery because the tumor that was producing her pain was blocking her small intestines. After the surgery, it took 8 months before she was able to get an MRI (to speed things up we offered to pay for an MRI in the US, but Swedish doctors would not approve her travel because they said she was too ill). After her MRI, it took another 7 months before her chemo started. By that time though there was apparently little that they could do to help her.
I'd sure like somebody in the press to verify this story. Anybody speak Swedish?
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My mother in Romania (a socialized medicine country), who had breast cancer, saw quite a different outcome. She was diagnosed and treated swiftly and effectively. Her payments were minimal. I'm hard pressed to think that Sweden would have a worse medical system than Romania.
However, even assuming the record is correct, I'll put my mom's experience against Roger's grandmother, and we have a 50/50 opportunity for the things to get better or worse.
Seriously, why is this even an argument?
April 8, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haven't you heard? "Data" is just the plural of "anecdote".
April 8, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
nevermind data like this: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html
we've got anecdotes, which are far more valuable.
April 8, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did not find anything in the Swedish press regarding John Lott, which is not surprising in itself. Without a name it is hard to verify.
Mind you, Sweden does not require a doctor's note to travel out of the country nor does the U.S. for a visaless entry so unless she was in a state that required special accommodation for the flight, there would have been nothing stopping her from flying out. In that case, though, she would most assuredly have gotten an MRI sooner than in 8 months unless there was malpractice.
I find this story extremely unlikely as told.
April 8, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
The story strikes me as possible both here and there, having had several older relatives go through terminal illnesses in the American health care system.
Doctors can decide that a patient is just complaining or not taking the medication right or not listening, and they can just be wrong. Plus, as the patient feels worse and worse, he or she may become less effective at demanding the doctor's attention.
If you have a loved one who reports several rounds of medical visits that don't yield helpful change, think carefully about whether someone else needs to go along on the visits both to listen and to advocate. Especially, think about whether it's time to offer help, and even pushy help, to a relative who has usually been very independent.
April 8, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to defend some guy I've never heard or and don't care about, but... A couple of months ago, a local five year old was taken to the emergency room at my local hospital, the doctor told his folks that it looked like the flu and that they should take him to their general practitioner, where the kid died of pneumonia while awaiting treatment.
Of course this story may have some elements of Hillary's pregnant woman's ordeal because the kid's story was never fully documented in the media and all I really have is a "tribute" to his optimism from a local columnist, which prompted me to ask a friend and fellow parent who works for that paper for more details.
April 8, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
i'd say 99% sure that this story is based in malpractice in the swedish system – that they didn't evaluate her problems as sufficiently dangerous for her to get a speedy treatment. Or they thought that it would be impossible to save her life anyway. In either case malpractice can occur even though the resources are vast. Malpractice willl always be there in a few cases each year.
I think Obama nailed it by actually looking at the overall facts between the health care in Sweden vs United States. Life expectancy, infant mortality rate etc. Those are figures that really show in numbers which country has the highest quality health care.
April 9, 2008 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
My husband is from Greece and they are a part of the EU. We have hosted several Greek citizens that were sent to the USA to visit the University of MN for the treatment of difficult tumors of the brain. The Greek national health care paid for their visits. A family friend came over to go to Mayo for a second opinion on a terminal cancer diagonsis. The Mayo physicians concurred with the Greek doctors.They were willing to try with a different chemo, it did not work and our friend did die. The entire cost was paid by the Greek health system. I came down with a small infection while visiting my in-laws in Greece and my visit with the doctor was included in my family's plan and my meds cost was next to nothing. In America we pay close to $20,000 a year with a $1,500 per person ded. for a family of four with pretty good health. That, my friends is obscene.
April 9, 2008 1:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
John Lott received some pretty nasty comments on his website following the linking to his original post here at TPM. Glad people are challenging him, but I wish the conversation could remain civil. I think unnecessary vitriol and personal attacks undermine the arguments in defense of Obama's healthcare plan. Let's debate Lott on the facts not on his parenting skills!
Here's his rebuttal:
"John Lott said...
"Wow, what a lot of mean comments. The emails that I have gotten are similar. Obviously, these readers don't know it, but this type of rationing is the norm when the government provides health insurance. There are two forces at work. When the price of a product is zero people use it too much. Because of so much money being spent on health care, governments restrict access to the service. I don't think that most Americans would put up for a second a 8 month wait for an MRI. If they were told that they have cancer, I don't think that they would want to wait two months or even one month. Government also just doesn't run programs as efficiently as private operations.
"Dear dhsmd:
"Thanks for the useful note. Unfortunately, the solutions being offered by the Democrats mean that more people who get sick will die. I have written a lot on this (e.g., the impact of price controls on the incentive to invent new drugs), but there will be a real cost in terms of lives lost.
4/08/2008 8:53 PM"
(If you go back to the original post, you can see dhsmd's comments just prior to Lott's latest.)
April 9, 2008 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Healthcare is an imprecise science, so it's easy to find horror stories in any country. As for me, I was pregnant for the first time at 40, just after my husband and I had relocated to a new city. Desperate to get in to see an OB-GYN, I began calling those covered by our insurance plan to get an appointment. Of the six or so practices in our plan, four weren't even taking new patients. Of the other two, the soonest I could get in (as a new patient) was six months. By that time, I would be about ready to deliver. Talk about lack of pre-natal care! So I took that appointment, figuring I'd just have to make visits to the local county health department to do well-baby exams until then (yes, lack of access to a private, commercial healthcare provider was driving me to the only other option available -- the public healthcare system that Lott and his ilk demonize as being so unavailable). It all became a moot point, however, when I miscarried not too long thereafter. But I must say that the three months John Lott's mother had to wait to get in to a specialist would have been music to my ears when I was trying to find somebody to take me.
Yep, horror stories on every level in every country.
And if John Lott is truly upset about the "malpractice" his mother may (or may not) have experienced, he should truly be thrilled with all the steps George Bush has taken to put a low-level cap on the maximum amount that can be awarded in malpractice cases.
April 9, 2008 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink