a call-to-arms for Michelle
This is a call to arms for all Democrats but particularly for all women. More importantly it is a special appeal to those who have strongly supported Hillary and still do. I want to speak to you first.
The odds are now overwhelmingly against Hillary gaining the nomination. When her race has ended many of you have said you will not support Obama. I would like you to reconsider not because this country desperately needs to elect a Democratic president but because there exists another incredible woman pioneer who needs your support and passion: Michelle Obama.
Now I need everyone to jump over and read a post by Kathy G at
http://thegspot.typepad.com/blog/2008/05/by-kathy-g.html#more
called The Hillary-ization of Michelle Obama.
Here is the important excerpt:
- I predict that wingnut heads will explode throughout the land [when she becomes First Lady]. And there will be a whole other layer of bullshit Michelle will have to deal with. In addition to the anti-Democrat bullshit, and the sexist bullshit, there will be, of course, the racist bullshit.
My heart goes out to her. The road she will be traveling on will be a difficult one, in particular because there is no one in the history of America who has trod that particular path before. She is an exceedingly courageous person to have chosen such a public role. Just by sheer virtue of being black and female, and daring to live a public life, she will be highly controversial. She will attract a hell of a lot of ugly hatred. Even for a person as strong as I am sure she is, there are sure to be times when that will be very, very hard to take.
What I'm wondering right now is, what can we - as Democrats, as feminists, as people who are deeply committed to racial equality -- do to help and support her? Here's the thing: we have, to an extent, the benefit of hindsight here. We know what the right did to Hillary, and we can expect them to do a lot of the same things to Michelle. How do we combat this?
I realize the Republicans and the right are going to do the same disgusting things they always do. But one thing we need to be hyper-vigilant about is not letting the media get away with repeating right-wing memes and narratives about Michelle (or Barack, or any Democrat, for that matter). Close scrutiny of the media coverage of Michelle Obama, as well as some energetic media-centered activism, will of course be crucial. Do readers of this blog have any more specific ideas? I'd love to hear your thoughts
So to Kathy G’s call-to-arms I add my own to TPM readers.
Yes, Michelle will not be the first woman president but she will be an historic First Lady and I think she needs an army of woman who will remain vigilant on her behalf at all times not only when she is in the White House but equally important all through the general election. When the right-wing attacks we as Democratic women need to protest immediately and not let them define her. It would be amazing if we were to see all the passion Hillary's followers have given their candidate be at the appropriate time in the near future shifted to Michelle. Yes she represents a newer generation; Michelle was not in the first wave of fighters like Hillary but she has had to fight every step of the way none the less so all of us including those in "Hillary's demographics" should take up her fight now. We need to take up Kathy G’s call-to-arms and swarm ever time the MSM, or a pundit, or the ring-wing puts out something nasty. We need to flood the networks with calls, the newspapers with letters, the pundits with emails. Stop whatever it is in its tracks. We can do this.(Yes we can!) It will not be marching in the streets but in a very real sense it will be taking to the streets to insure the rights of all women. We may not have a woman president this time around but we can insure the continued extension of women’s rights and of all aspects of social justice by electing Barack Obama and seeing his amazing wife redefine the role of First Lady. (The exploding heads will be an extra and very exciting treat!)
I'm on board. Not only to protect Michelle, but to protect their two beautiful daughters.
What the right did to Hillary Clinton when she was first lady was absolutely shameful. Not to mention the disgusting jokes about Chelsea (John McCain with the "Janet Reno is her father" sh*t).
We need to prevent those smears this time. As I recall, most people have been respectful of Laura Bush. (Only limited mentions of the Stepford Wife stare) Perhaps we could ask for the same? Whichever of the candidates spouses becomes first spouse? (Bill or Michelle?) (Sorry Cindy, you'll have to suffer the slings and arrows of being called a Stepford Wife)
May 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please share the email addresses and contact numbers for the MSM folks. I would be happy to help Michelle Obama against the ignorance that's sure to afflict her, while she tries to help her husband become POTUS.
May 11, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's a great lady.
She'll be a great First Lady.
I'm on board too.
May 11, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Michelle is prepared for the negative attacks, imo, and with the additional help of her internet friends, we can all correct the smears.
May 11, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately Michelle has made it clear that her own animus towards Hillary is profound and that she will block an Obama/Clinton ticket. Seems unlikely that Hillary's supporters will both forgive her that and protect her from the vitriol that will come her way from the disgusting fringes.
May 11, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
This has been debunked by the Obama campaign. It was just idle speculation that Novak was engaged in. Kinda like the rumor that spread awhile back saying that Elizabeth Edwards did not like Hillary.
There are certain corners of the media that find the idea of feminine drama involving Hillary too tempting to pass up. Robert Novak is most definitely one of those people. He should not be giving any credibility. It's part of the early effort that p marshall is talking about to demonize Michelle, like the right loves to do.
Don't fall for it. You're better than that.
May 11, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I googled Michelle and Hillary and hate and have found several videos of Michele expressing same.
May 11, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow! You listen to Novak?
May 11, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I listen to Michelle.
May 12, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then quote Michelle commenting on Clinton as VP for me.
If you can't, shut the hell up. You're just carrying water for the right wing by spreading lies. A lot of shit gets said during a contentious campaign, and Bill, Michelle and Elizabeth all took their shots over the past year. This is no reason to attempt to help smear a woman based on lies spread from Bob f-ing Novak.
Get a grip.
May 12, 2008 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Got any credible evidence to support your contention that Michelle has made her "profound" "animus" toward HRC clear and that she would block HRC as VP? If HRC supporters cannot "forgive" Michelle, and say nothing when the right throws negative attacks at her, wouldn't it be clear that the convictions they claim to hold are totally bogus?
May 11, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Michelle has been given many opportunities to heal the rift and has used them to widen the gap.
May 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is exactly what the original post is about, Blusage.
WE know that you haven't looked into the latest developments regarding Robert Novak's article. We know that you're not well informed. It's tiresome argueing with people not on differnt perspectives, but just trying to educate them on the basics. You have to do that on your own. An ill informed opinion does nothing to move things forward. Be intelligent enough or moral enough not be be a block to that.
May 11, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lovely communication skills. You sure are convincing me.
May 11, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're not enlightened enough to be convinced of anything. You're stuck in a script of trying to be superior with inferior reasoning skills.
May 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
links to evidence?
May 11, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, IslandGyal, for the most concise statement on the subject. It's obvious Michelle does not trust Hillary (who would?), and the fact that she's made her feelings known within the Obama campaign I take as a sign of her thoughtful good sense. The 19th-century gender-role model kathyg talks about is alive and well only in the minds of the Right's ever-shrinking cadre of political/religious zealots. Most of us actual citizens, white and black, male and female, have no problem with an intelligent, independent woman speaking out, and making her thoughts and feelings known. Michelle Rocks.
Obama 08
May 11, 2008 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do your own search. It's easy. There is a lot out there but if you just want to play by the Obama rules* stay right here.
*Don't say anything bad about Obama, and if he loses, it's all Hillary's fault
May 12, 2008 1:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
You make a claim, and when challenged, you refuse to prove it, telling those who challenge you to prove your argument for you.
Maybe this passes for rapier debate skills in the Limbaugh bizarro universe, but in this universe it's considered a cheap smear and a cowardly dodge.
But you are welcomed to prove me wrong, by providing reputable links. And no, a link to Bob Novak is not considered reputable even by Republicans.
May 12, 2008 3:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
My reply to you, is way down thread spot.
May 12, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love a chance to pimp my own posts: Michelle still not ready for prime time
But as long as the Obama crowd insists he's doing nothing wrong because he's ahead in delegates, there will be no self-critique. Your loss.
May 11, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter what you post, Desidero. You're not supporting any candidate. Because you don't like human beings.
May 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Additionally, just because you're sociopathic doesn't mean that we're tickled or curious to know how your subconscious works.
But you know that already. You're just lonely enough to keep acting out.
May 11, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate humans too. The rest of the animal world makes much more sense.
May 11, 2008 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Transformative peacefulness in shifting shades of meaning. Now that is something extraordinary. Easily the best avatar on this site.
May 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your Peter Pan Syndrome is not appealing on a grown man.
Could you two trolls (Levi and Desidero) allow women to discuss women issues on Mother's Day?
Or do you have such an Opedial complex that it defines moral reason?
May 11, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
We all have mothers, or in my case had. I really am not sure of exactly what a troll is, really. I guess it's someone not wanted in a discussion?
May 11, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah and Hillary, as per her own supporter puts it, is Controlling, Insidious, Tenacious, Knowledgeable, A Prevaricator, Effective, Resolute, Intense, Smart, Experienced, Ingratiating, Duplicitous, Charming, Tough, Dedicated, Respected, Hated, Disliked, Educated, Determined, Forceful, Beguiling, Deceitful, Crafty, Offensive, Intelligent, Insightful, Understanding, Discerning, Well-informed, Devoted, really good traits for "prime-time".
May 11, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Back on topic.
Michelle Obama is smart. She was smart enough to marry a smart man.
The ideas of the past are dying. People that hang onto them are becoming the modern dinosaur.
There is a split in the feminist movement right now. True support of all women will be redefined again. Women should also look at the bottom to top model and know that we all have resources to help all others at the same time.
May 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a nice little article about Michelle's poor childhood. Good to know how they've pulled themselves up.
May 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha!
The author of that article is insanely jealous. And you read into bullshit to make your reality?
Is that all you do all day Desidero is look for reasons to show your insecurity?
May 11, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am sorry, but I see no smoking gun to discredit Michelle Obama.
May 11, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Any man that comes on this thread to make women feel shitty on Mother's day says a lot about that kind of man.
May 11, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is TPM - I didn't think women's feelings were important here.
May 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Capn' Obvious.
May 11, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it were so obvious I wouldn't have written this and this and this and this.
And I'm not a "captain", I'm an evil bitch gall spewing daemon from the dark side, despite my occasional lapses into reasonableness or humor. Perhaps I've been too restrained. No Quarter.
May 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're just lonely.
May 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMG! Desidero what a mess. The link between Moichele's hospital board position to Obama's sell out on health care policy is devastating. I just could not fathom why he was taking Republican talking points on health care. And SEIU thugs vs. CNA on labor. As an advocate for professional nurses, i'm afraid that with Obama we will (backdoor)"unionize"eight-dollar-an-hour-high-school graduates to provide nursing instead of professionally trained RNs. Next we'll give those same "nurses" too many patients (even if they knew what to do when one had a crisis) and think of Michelle's humble beginnings when we watch our loved ones die.
May 11, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a moral thug you are, blusage.
May 11, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
oops typo, meant Michelle
May 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regarding mother's day. I'm a new grandma and I speak for nurses from the maternity ward where I, and my children and my grandchild were born.
May 11, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a disservice. And I'm sure no one asked you to promote them. Educate yourself on how to constructively work for change.
May 11, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like you?
May 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well for certain not like you.
May 11, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Michelle Obama never said she was a "welfare child".
You just want to totally degrade her because you're an angry mixed up racist individual.
May 11, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, wrong application of a reply.
May 11, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just had breakfast w/ six of the RNs getting off night shift. They said I accurately reflected their position on Obama and the SEIU and that I could speak for them.
May 12, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Deep conflict here. Floating through the thread I spied this wonderful avatar. I complemented its artistry to the author. I had no intent to disturb the conversation.
Pause and feel the beauty of the world beyond your anger.
May 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Serenity is lost in the rush of the moment. Perhaps too many rats for even the finest piper to lead, too many bitter hearts to assuage.
May 11, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's just your mumblings of a response from the pain of realizing your lack of moral character.
That's why you have to have a surreal avatar and find comfort in distorted responses. You haven't integrated yourself.
May 11, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quasar. Please respect our discussion. Respectfully.
Desidero:
The finest piper led the rats to Hades. Rebuked and scorned and never paid, he himself was slain.
May 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't even know the story of the Pied Piper. What a fake.
May 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
AND you don't know of the historical context of the Pied Piper.
May 11, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I say this only to enlighten you. I hope that you haven't really managed to stop this innocent interaction between two posters.
As far as the the Pied Piper Story, if you'd like to be educated on the deep nature of myth, you might read some works on structural anthropology. You will find that the "story" of any tale is only understood in all its spontaneous variants, one of which you have just interrupted.
May 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I call you on your bullshit again.
May 11, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
The piper is the external avatar dividing the three essences of the soul (separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak) - he exorcises the external daemons, he divides off the poisoned world-attached ego, and saves the still innocent inner id, as expressed in the trip to the underworld or into the mountain.
May 11, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
No it isn't. It was a simple story of the Bubonic plague in the Middle Ages.
Do you now see how far you'll go to prove your own clownish behavior?
May 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, it is a study in Alchemy.
May 11, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Alchemy?
HAHA!
No wonder you're confused!
May 11, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero. I'm thinking about this. Just a minute or more yet....
May 11, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. But there is the music also, the mythic medium that allows the transitions of humans through all barriers in the world and in themselves. The piper is also Orpheus, so the Pied Piper and your avatar perhaps, are variants of the sacrifice. The singer dies in the end for transforming the world through beauty, whether that be in the guise of eros or pathos.
May 11, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, music is one of the essential magics, such as the days-long ecstatic rituals from the pipes of Jajouka, shaking the daemons through exhaustion and bring out the inner nature.
I'm still uncertain of the Piper himself facing death - he should be more the figure of the Magi, the sacrifical priest - just as Judas delivered Jesus unto death, facing the ultimate test of servitude, sacrificing his child and master.
May 11, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. All myths arise from some intertwining of several basic myths. I lean more to Orpheus the musician (obviously, as in the Magic Flute) so I move to that myth whenever a musician is in the story.
Whenever you have any thoughts on it, leave them around. I'll find them.
May 11, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
You need a nap.
May 11, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Levi, I welcome your contribution. I also find Desidero's avatar to be one of the more interesting on the site. I think it's merely a coincidence that Desidero is also one of the most obsequious trolls on the site, and has almost nothing of value to offer here.
I stressed the "almost" because, after admiring that avatar I also checked out his/her link to the gossipy Daily Mail article about Michelle, and honest-to-God it makes me admire Michelle even more than I already did! What a great First Family the Obama's will be!
May 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many tabs or computers are you going to use to keep up this up, Desidero?
May 11, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
quasar, and beyond:
No point in entering an art form you can't understand. The meaning itself is in the words, and in this instance, the art. Anger will distract you from beauty.
Read a poem or something.
May 11, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're a Dadaist. What's to discuss?
May 11, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have no desire to enter the conflicts among you all with Desidero. That is your history with him and not mine. I'm not especially interested in any "views" that spill out in the conflicts here. The more you would try and marginalize him, the more I would be curious about the reason.
We started a different interaction. No need to enter with as the jailer.
May 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever.
May 11, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goth is so 90's, Levi.
May 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
As enlightenment, I offer this to you. "Goth" as expressed in the vulgarity of the 90's is a dribble of a greater river. You have tapped into its pornographic side.
To understand this more clearly, explore the history of (1) The Goths, the tribe (2) Gothic architecture and (3) Gothic literature.
You will find the 90's is a bit limiting. You'd have to start with something like 590, and 1090, etc. But that's up to you should your interest be peaked.
I believe that you asked me to get out of your conversation "on Mother's Day"-- which I did. You seem to have lost that tribute to your mother. I hope that in my words with Desidero, I have paid tribute to mine.
I turn to yoga to tune out the real demons on the page.
May 11, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not that I don't understand the origins of the Gothic period.
I'm saying you're more like Goth Revival.
May 11, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Change that to Goth third wave.
Which is completely pop culture Goth.
May 11, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Admire her all you want. I'm just tired of the Obama side's "we were poorer than Clinton" class warfare shtick. Hillary wasn't landed gentry, and Michelle wasn't a welfare child.
May 11, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your assesments are wrong. You start with the wrong pretext, add unsubstantiated quote, add the wrong context and there you go...a Desidero post.
But far be it from anyone to suggest that you may be totally wrong in your perspective.
May 11, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go listen to Our Lady of the Deprived Childhood yourself. Fear and Struggle. Everything's just one heroic journey after another.
May 11, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero,
I think you should take a walk sometime, find a kitty to pet, go fishing or help with stocking waterways, plant a garden, or help at a co-op farm, eat more nutritious foods. Visit a sick friend, help your neighbor for no reason, volunteer for the poor, talk to people of diverse backgrounds just for the good feeling it gives you and others. In other words, sometimes you have to learn to be happy.
Then you wouldn't have to spend so much time trying to create an alternate reality and you could be happy to live in this one on more peaceful terms.
May 11, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Michelle Obama never said she was a "welfare child".
You just want to totally degrade her because you're an angry mixed up racist individual.
May 11, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Besides that, all the references I've heard about their poor backgrounds were in response to Hillary yelling elitist and going Annie Oakley, so it's less 'poor me' then 'look who's talking.'
May 11, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, excellent reference.
May 11, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
One more thing, Desidero.
Back away from the alchemy. For everything that Newton went through because of it you should know better and that it's theory has been totally debunked as a dead theory. The alchemy of the past is the String Theory of the present.
We welcome you to the reality based community.
May 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can close that Wikipedia window now. They're gone.
May 11, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha!
Didn't use Wiki at all.
Jealous much?
May 11, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
You here after the dust settles.
What a guy.
May 11, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pirate Peet is a more courageous pirate than you are, Donnerpass.
May 11, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
P Marshall,
I want to personally apologize for my resposibility for disrupting this post.
For months Desidero has made his comments and responses as wanting to be "part" of the discussion.
But like he/she said it's done to create distortion.
Being abusive to women about a woman was the limit. But like you said the issue will be raised in this matter and so I guess it was good to begin here.
I'd like to suggest that you repost so we could begin again. Or what I could do is expand on your original posting giving you credit and host the ensuing conversation.
May 11, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for the apology. I was about to write about the disruption. Please feel free to expand my original post which was all ready and expansion of Kathy G's original post and see where you can take it.
May 11, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did any of you hear the NPR portrait (can't remember the right word) of Michelle?
Among other things, I learned that she's never been away from her children more than three days in a row, and that length seemed nearly traumatizing when they (or she, can't remember) described it.
May 11, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Count me in. Michelle has said that if she should become first lady that her emphasis will be on women's issues. She thinks our voices should be heard. She has all the credentials of a true feminist and she surely deserves our feminine support. I am so very thankful that a Hillary supporter saw the need and said this first. It makes me feel like the women can join hands and heal the party and the country. It is the women who bring the healing. I hope that Hillary supporters will come to Obama's campaign page comments at the end of each daily article and leave this and other suggestions about how we can begin to come together. We are eager to share with you and many are hoping to hear from you.
May 11, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for an inspiring and important message that needs to be heard by everybody.
And Happy Mothers Day to all.
May 11, 2008 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look. Obama and his minions including Michelle have made it abundantly clear that the Democratic tent they are building does not have room for Clinton supporters in it. This notion is , of course, gladly seconded by most if not all Obama supporters on TPM. Not our fight. Sorry.
May 11, 2008 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chivalry is not dead.
May 11, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
What are you talking about? When have Obama and Michelle made it abundantly clear that there is no room for Clinton supporters? And who here in TPM seconded the notion?
Anyone who truly wants a Democrat to win in November has spoken endlessly about uniting the party once the nominee has been chosen.
May 11, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check out the posts here dojo any day of the week. It is very clear. And as far as obama goes I can only go on what I hear out of his mouth and out of the mouthes of his minions. Axelrove in particular. Add in the likes of Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman and there you have it. IMHO.
May 11, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Axelrove!
May 11, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your opinion failed to mention that you're in fact a Republican.
Why choose disinformation?
May 11, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Voted Democrat, held party offices as a Democrat all my life. Sorry that won't stick. Try another one.
May 11, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I come to TPM every single day. It seems most people who are Obama supporters dislike Hillary and/or how she has run her campaign. I have yet to see any commenter say that her supporters have no room under Obama's path towards becoming POTUS.
We can argue about her recent statements about "hardworking whites" (aka blue-collar and/or rual white voters), and her recent power point presentation. These voters, it seems, tend to slide toward the GOP, so I kind of beg to differ that they are a part of the Democratic base. But that's just me. And that's a worthwhile arguement in my book.
However, what have Axelrod, Matthews and Olberman (not that Matthews or Olbermann speak for the Obama campaign) said to make you think they are positing that there is no room for Clinton supporters? I watch Hardball and Countdown almost everyday, so just throw some context out here for me.
May 11, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
As you've already started backpedalling I am at a loss. If you don't think Union members and poor folks are the base of the party I am not sure what to say to you.
And consistently putting out there that the Clintons are racist is just a pack of lies and anyone that has been alive for over 20 years knows it. As you identify with your candidate, we do also with ours. There has been little or no treading lightly with matthews or olberman..I.E. his special comment on her. The constant slights, jokes, innuendo about her or Bill or chelsea ends up taking its toll. Thats all I am saying.
May 12, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't backpedal, I said the point was up for argument. And I certainly never said rural or blue-collar white voters have no room under the Obama tent because there is plenty of room. We need their support. I was saying that as a voting bloc, they can swing to the right. Just look at Clinton's power point presentation.
All I know is, this election has been about tossing out the traditional paradigm. I hope that Obama campaigns hard for those rural and blue-collar voters (many of which he has won already!) and I have a good feeling that he will. He has a lot of uniting to do: within the Democratic party and within the US as a whole.
There is more than enough room for you and every other Clinton supporter for Obama's POTUS bid. And it would be the same the other way around. We need party unity in order to win in November. It's as simple as that.
May 12, 2008 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I second it! Sorry, no room at the inn for Clinton supporters.
May 11, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this post asking us to defend Michelle Obama? Are you serious? There's an easy answer!
lol!
May 11, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
And then she went on to say of course everyone in the party is going to work their hearts out to take the White House no matter what but she really thinks that Obama is the only one can really take the country in a new direction.
Sounds like a loyal wife?!?!
1 question: why don't you have a chiken-themed avatar? It's all the troll-rage! Too lazy?
May 12, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who cares what Michelle went on to say? No one cares what Hillary says in context. Fair is fair.
Hey, good luck uniting the party with those insults! 16 million votes for McCain, comin' up!
May 12, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ack, that's horrible! Hillary's context is important, and so is Michelle's. Neither of the Clintons and neither of the Obamas have escaped a flubbed sound-bite this year, and I've found the media simplification disgusting on all counts. People on this board have cited those examples (on all sides) all along, but that's not a good reason to promote that sort of over-distillation.
(Though I'll grant that acontextual media coverage, etc, is a very important topic of discussion. And that it's important to be aware of how those types of comments play.)
May 12, 2008 1:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're one of the more reasonable commenters here at TPM, CaliforniaPaige, but I've never seen you step in to say "Ack, that's horrible!" when someone sound-bit Hillary on these boards. There have been plenty of opportunities. But maybe you have stepped in and I missed it.
May 12, 2008 1:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, gasket, I think you're right on that. I'm duly chastised. (I have to admit I've made a policy of ignoring vitriolic posts, especially the anti-Hillary ones, over the last few weeks. Not worth my time.)
May 12, 2008 2:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
If kgb999 hadn't called me a troll (and a lazy one at that), I never would have added the "Who cares" part.
Meanwhile, quasar is totally freaking out in this and other threads. I have no idea why—Mother's Day blues? Anyway, I think an intervention is in order. I'd offer to help, but I have a terrible bedside manner: What the hell is wrong with you, quasar! I've really never seen quasar go hog wild on people before.
On the other hand, an intervention is like forcing Hillary to drop out of the race, so never mind! ;-)
May 12, 2008 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
February 8th?
That was like eons ago in the time of a primary campaign.
Was this a fair Super Tuesday type question? And why didn't they ask Hillary and/or Bill the same type of question?
Very "gotcha" oriented.
May 12, 2008 12:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. Well done.
May 11, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
thanks! I love Axelrove. ;-)
May 12, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I do take issue w/ one thing: if we wright into the hacks going after her, wouldn't we be legitimizing them?
May 11, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Depends on how you do it. Boycotting local businesses that advertise is very effective if enough people (threaten to) do it, especially if its all women. Alienating women is pretty dangerous for most retail businesses (women make most purchasing decisions).
May 12, 2008 12:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
oh brother
May 12, 2008 3:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
oh brother, how ridiculous. Michelle has led about as codled an existence as is humanly possible in this life. As a beneficiary of affirmative action, she gets a free ride to Princeton and HLS. As un undergraduate, she writes her thesis on the predictable and academically worthless topic, "Princeton Educated Blacks," as opposed to something substantive or that would require her to reach far beyond her own bubble existence. And doubtlessly at Princeton and HLS she was doted upon for being "special," i.e. a black person who can write and speak passable English. She gets a legal education at Harvard, in order to become the Director of External Affairs for a hospital, essentially a flack-PR job. And despite being showered with expensive education, which she has put to negligible use, she thinks the US (of the KKK of A!) has been insufficiently generous to her.
well, screw Michelle.
on another topic, screw Tibet too. Tibet is a sovereign Chinese affair, and no business of busybodies like you fools.
May 12, 2008 3:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama wants Hillary supporters to support his candidacy, the best way is to put her on the ticket.
There is something you could do as well. Have a talk with your Cafe posters. Tell them that when they spew hatred for Hillary it doesn't make it any easier for her supporters to vote for Obama.
May 12, 2008 3:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
And tell Michelle not to make any more stupid comments like the "proud for the first time" one. She going to have enough trouble explaining her racist remarks that are contained in some of the things she wrote in college.
May 12, 2008 3:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look, I like Michelle. In my mind she's the strength behind Obama. He's a cute, smart empty suit to me. She's got the drive he lacks. I've read the lengthy bio Lauren Collins did and the more gossipy piece in the Daily Mail. They both basically describe the same person. So does Bob Novak.
(Bob Novak has been justly vilified here and across the globe. but something even his most avid enemies have to admit is that he is one of the most connected people in Washington and his gossip is rarely factually inaccurate even if he twists and spins it to the detriment of all.)
It is not hard to believe for Clinton supporters, like me, because of Michelles comments like
"I'd have to think about it....I really would" when asked if she would support Clinton if she were the nominee; and then "How can you run the white house if you can't run your own house" when reaching out to women in Wisconsin.
Sorry I just have trouble with the links thing.Mostly technological but also from the perspective of arguing a point in a forum like this. I find videoes imbedded in websites that I don't want to link to because then the argument gets shifted to a discussion of that website rather than the video itself- which in this case come from local news playing interviews with Michelle. I'm referring to widely shown pieces so I just don't get it. Don't you people do a google searches and read multiple reports before you come here with your certainty. I try to. I'm not gonna give you the excuse to shift the argument to one about someone like Bob Novak.
May 12, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
forgot to spell check sorry.
May 12, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
the comment above is a reply to spotthedog upthread.
May 12, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink