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Jim Webb for Not VP (the veepstakes parlor game continues)
I know about as much about the VP selection process as the next amateur pundit- not much. So this is all speculation (and premature speculation at that) but i wanted to get in on the parlor game and lay out where I stand on VP picks. I don't have a favorite, yet. I think ultimately, it will come down to a governor in a swing state.
Ed Rendell, or maybe Strickland from Ohio. Of those two, I think Rendell is the better choice. Strickland has been governor for 2 years and hasn't really done anything except try to make the Atty General resign because he had an extramarital affair. I thought only republicans thought infidelity was enough to cost you a job (unless you're a republican, that is). Apparently i was wrong.
But there's been a lot of buzz around TPM (and other blogs) about Jim Webb (D-VA) possibly being Barack Obama's running mate.
Personally I think this is a bad idea. And I'm not the only one. Ezra Klein, everyone's favorite policy and chart/graph wonk, agrees with me.
And besides...it is a collossolly bad idea to have two freshman senators on the same ticket going up against John McCain who's going to be hammering on the "experience" theme.
I think Obama is going to need someone to balance out his perceived lack of executive experience. Jim Webb doesn't help him do that. A governor would be a better choice.
Bill Richardson would win us New Mexico and probably Colorado too. But in all likelihood, the Dem will win New Mexico anyway, and Colorado will be a battleground no matter what.
Kathy Sebelius of Kansas could help shore up all those women who are supporting Hillary as if she's the only viable woman candidate this country will ever see again. She's a stong governor with a sparkling record who navigated a giant deficit without raising taxes. Plus she would help with independents and republicans. But, electorally I'm not sure she puts any states in play.
Or if you want to buck up those foreign policy creds, Joe Biden might be a good pick. But Joe's been in washington FOREVER (kinda undercuts the "change" theme) and electorally, i'm not sure he puts any states in play or adds to the map. However, he could be LBJ to Obama's JFK.
I don't know who exactly fits. I don't know what Obama is looking for. Jim Webb, however, is a horrible choice. If you want to make a play for Virginia, Tim Kaine would be a better choice. (Actually, I think Mark Warner would be the best choice if you're making a play for Va, but he's busy running for Senate). Kaine is a popular governor with executive experience who could help out in the state, although where he would help outside of Virginia remains unknown to me.
But you do not want to take a promising Senator in a reliably safe seat (as long as its Webb holding it) and thrust him into a VP candidacy that would stifle if not end his political career (does any one seriously think Webb will go on to be President?)
Whoever Obama picks, will be solid, I'm sure. I just don't think Jim Webb is the right guy.
Ed Rendell, or maybe Strickland from Ohio. Of those two, I think Rendell is the better choice. Strickland has been governor for 2 years and hasn't really done anything except try to make the Atty General resign because he had an extramarital affair. I thought only republicans thought infidelity was enough to cost you a job (unless you're a republican, that is). Apparently i was wrong.
But there's been a lot of buzz around TPM (and other blogs) about Jim Webb (D-VA) possibly being Barack Obama's running mate.
Personally I think this is a bad idea. And I'm not the only one. Ezra Klein, everyone's favorite policy and chart/graph wonk, agrees with me.
In Washington, James Webb increasingly feels like the consensus choice for vice-president. I hear his name about 5 times as often as anyone else's. And that's a shame. It's an unfortunate habit of politicos to identify talented politicians and then try and rip them from office they're currently excelling in and jam them in a spot they may not be ready for, or may not be able to shine from.
What people like about Webb -- his brashness, his individuality, his unique biography, his willingness to push the conversation forward -- are what make him a good Senator, and what would make him a bad VP candidate.
And besides...it is a collossolly bad idea to have two freshman senators on the same ticket going up against John McCain who's going to be hammering on the "experience" theme.
I think Obama is going to need someone to balance out his perceived lack of executive experience. Jim Webb doesn't help him do that. A governor would be a better choice.
Bill Richardson would win us New Mexico and probably Colorado too. But in all likelihood, the Dem will win New Mexico anyway, and Colorado will be a battleground no matter what.
Kathy Sebelius of Kansas could help shore up all those women who are supporting Hillary as if she's the only viable woman candidate this country will ever see again. She's a stong governor with a sparkling record who navigated a giant deficit without raising taxes. Plus she would help with independents and republicans. But, electorally I'm not sure she puts any states in play.
Or if you want to buck up those foreign policy creds, Joe Biden might be a good pick. But Joe's been in washington FOREVER (kinda undercuts the "change" theme) and electorally, i'm not sure he puts any states in play or adds to the map. However, he could be LBJ to Obama's JFK.
I don't know who exactly fits. I don't know what Obama is looking for. Jim Webb, however, is a horrible choice. If you want to make a play for Virginia, Tim Kaine would be a better choice. (Actually, I think Mark Warner would be the best choice if you're making a play for Va, but he's busy running for Senate). Kaine is a popular governor with executive experience who could help out in the state, although where he would help outside of Virginia remains unknown to me.
But you do not want to take a promising Senator in a reliably safe seat (as long as its Webb holding it) and thrust him into a VP candidacy that would stifle if not end his political career (does any one seriously think Webb will go on to be President?)
Whoever Obama picks, will be solid, I'm sure. I just don't think Jim Webb is the right guy.
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You make some good points here. I've been saying "Obama/Webb" for months now, but I heard through Politico yesterday that Webb has no interest in being a VP. I love Bill Richardson but as you so aptly pointed out, Obama would already win in Bill's home state/area. I've heard other people mention Kaine but I really don't know too much about him. So thanks to your post, I will go and look him up.
May 14, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mark Warner would be better than Tim Kaine, IMO. Kaine became governor on Warner's coat tails, and we have a Republican Lt. Gov in Virginia, so losing Kaine would hurt Virginia. Of course, Mark Warner is currently running for the Senate seat of (retiring) John Warner (Republican, no relation) against Gilmore. Warner is expected to win this seat, but if he becomes VP, I suppose we'd have to hold a special election in which Gilmore would probably win. So, it does have its downsides.
Still, I think Obama/Warner is the way to go.
May 14, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm also not big on Webb because I'm not yet clear on his domestic policy positions. Having said that, I disagree that Webb has no executive experience. He is a former Secretary of the Navy.
And what executive experience does McCain have? I think at most he was leader of a a flight group at one time.
We're not looking for who has the most experience as a Senator. It that was case we should nominate Sen. Byrd. Instead, we're looking for the best leader as chief executive. Long years in Washington as a Senator don't inform us of the candidates potential as an executive leader.
May 14, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you. But don't expect John McCain to not make the argument. Not only politically, but I really think that practically speaking it will be immensely helpful to have someone with executive experience on the ticket.
Now obviously, experience isn't everything. If it was, Obama wouldn't be the nominee. But the fact remains that I would feel very uncomfortable about having two freshmen senators on the same ticket together. I think its bad politics and I think that it gives McCain an opening that might otherwise not be there.
Right now, I'd say Rendell is the safest pick. We absolutely cannot lose PA and Rendell on the ticket almost guarantees a win there.
But the more i think about it the more i like Sebelius. Its just hard to see it because i don't think she adds anythign to the map.
May 14, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Webb was Secretary of the Navy for all of 9½ months.
That's not enough time to pick up any real "executive experience" -- and Sec. of the Navy isn't a particularly powerful or prestigious position. Secretary of State, sure. Defense? Okay. Hell, NSA. But a few months in a sub-Cabinet position isn't normally the sort of experience we look for at the top of the résumé for a vice presidential candidate.
Webb would be an extremely poor choice as Obama's running mate for several reasons.
May 14, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is a really good point i didn't even think of:
May 14, 2008 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
He does consistently say that he was wrong about that and has long changed his opionion. He would have to hit that message home or it could be a problem.
May 15, 2008 3:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
new10:
You're spot on about Webb's executive experience. He also would potentially cancel McCain's possible advantages as to supposed experience on "defense" issues and as appealing to Scots-Irish voters.
Webb is the best of three worlds on defense.
1) He attended the Naval Academy and was decorated for his service in the Marines in Vietnam, like McCain; his son has served bravely and honorably in Iraq, even though Webb had criticized the invasion of Iraq from the beginning.
2) Like Obama, he was "right" in opposing the Iraq adventure from the beginning.
3) Webb has a documented record of putting principle before expediency in public policy; I believe he resigned as Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration over policy conflicts.
Webb also provides numerous pluses both in style and philosophy:
1) He is a powerful, down-to-earth speaker. His response to Bush's 2007 State of the Union Address was the best Democratic response of both Dubya administrations. He spoke from the heart with an authentic populist message about the plight of working people.
2) He can be fiery and could attack McCain strongly, but as a fellow Annapolis graduate who knows better than to try to sell US voters on a Bush III presidency. When Dubya asked Webb at a White House social function how Webb's son was doing in Iraq, Webb reportedly said, "Don't you dare talk to me about my son!" turned and left Bush standing there. Webb is probably as close as Obama could get to an effective slugger in trading punches with the Republicans generally and McCain in particular. But Webb's speeches have none of the sharp edges of Clinton's rants.
3) He is a populist from the heart. He grew up in the middle-class home of a military officer in the 1950s and 1960s when military pay was so low that officers were often embarrassed that their income was so low compared to their contemporaries. He has made a good living as a writer, but I doubt that his books (collectively) have commanded sales revenue anywhere close to the revenues of the Clintons' books and Bill Clinton's lecture fees.
4) In tune with Obama's message of reaching for the political center, Webb was an active Republican for many years. He is a great example of a Republican "whose party left him," and an ideal spokesman to "close the deal" with Republicans who are thinking either of changing party permanently or of crossing party lines this November.
5) Webb has also grown a lot in appreciating the progressive position on issues. Decades ago he made some statements about Annapolis being adversely affected by the admission of female cadets; he appreciates the error of his former way of thinking on women in the military. Webb also wrote harsh words about young men who resisted the draft - in one way or another - rather than go to join the Americans fighting in Vietnam; I believe that after the pain of the senseless years in Iraq - and probably other experiences - he has a much better understanding of those of us (I'm one) who refused to join the killing because of our moral beliefs.
Is Webb the "ideal" candidate for Obama's VP? I sure hope not, because any candidate who appears to be "ideal" must have some problems that haven't been spotted yet.
Webb apparently is not looking for a new job, but unless he is hampered by some serious compromising factor, such as a serious illness in the family that has not yet been publicized, I cannot imagine that he would refuse to join the ticket if Obama pressed him.
No one else has as many advantages as Webb for the VP slot in a campaign against John McCain. I've thought for a long time that he was the strongest candidate to join Obama on the ticket. I'm glad he is getting considered seriously for Obama's VP.
May 15, 2008 3:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm absolutely opposed to another Senator on the ticket. I think Gov. Richardson is a non-brainer and I don't care that it would mean putting a Latino with an African American on the same ticket. If people are freaked out by the idea of electing a Latino Governor, they aren't voting for a Freshman African American Senator anyway.
I'm not even a huge Richardson fan - it jsut makes a lot of sense given Rishardson's biography and experience.
If you do some electoral college math (http://www.270towin.com) you'll see just how important those Western state electoral votes are to the GOP's chances. If they lose Washington, Colorado, and New Mexico - that leaves McCain with little room for error in the rest of the country. (Obama-Richardson could lose OH, FL, VA, NC, MO, IN, NH and other typical red states but still win the White House)
May 14, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think if electoral math is your only concern, richardson is probably the best pick. But like you, i'm not personally impressed with richardson. He's not a very inspirational pick, but if you want a winner, he might be the way to go.
He'll put the mountain west in play and make mccain play defense there. However, given last nights results in Mississippi, its hard not to see Obama carrying some of those states anyway.
Its just a very bad year for republicans which is what makes the veepstakes so interesting. Unconventional choices can be made without risking too much.
May 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I not really advocating Richardson, I just see how he makes sense in many, many ways. Really, the Western electoral votes would be the last thing he brings to the table. His foreign policy and executive experience would be at the top.
I think Sebelius and Napolitano would be logical choices as well.
People who will not be VP: Gore, Edwards, Ferraro, Lieberman...
May 14, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
eh...holy joe might run with mccain.
May 14, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, so he won't be VP, just a VP candidate. ;)
May 14, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
If McCain selected Lieberman (I don't see it happening), do you thing the right wing base would be excited (if they believe it helps them win) or pissed (because Lieberman is pro-choice).
May 14, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to go with pissed. It might score a few independents, but I think it'd cause more right-wingers to stay home.
If I were a 527 secretly trying to help Obama (secrecy would be key here), I'd similarly highlight the fact that McCain voted to support stem-cell research. Don't get me wrong, I agree with McCain on this (as does Clinton and Obama), but it pisses off many of the extreme right-wingers.
May 14, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been thinking along the same lines.
The right wing base needs to be reminded over and over that John McCain: does not hate gays as much as they do, believes in sound science like stem cell research, believes global warming is a problem, believes in evolution, and doesn't hate undocumented Latino workers.
New slogan suggestion for the GOP base:
"Don't vote for John McCain - He's not crazy enough"
May 14, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
thats the irony of it all though.
If mccain had chosen to run a campaign based on winning independents and moderates he might have had a legitimate shot at winning.
But he sacrificed his "maverick" reputation to try to win over a base that doesn't really like him and aren't going to turn out for him anyway.
So he loses the base that was never for him, and he undercut his rep as an independent maverick republican.
Its a lose/lose.
May 14, 2008 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
And it's damn hard to be a GOP "maverick" when you support a hugely unpopular war made entirely by a hugely unpopular President.
Pundits talk about how the main issue is the economy - and I think it is certainly a key issue. But how many average voters can tell you differences between what the GOP and Dems want to do to fix the economy?
But the war - even if it's getting pushed to the back page - demonstrates a clear policy difference where one either embraces or rebukes GWB. The war represents Bush as a failure and McCain is embracing that failure, wheras Obama never has.
That's why Obama beat Hillary and that's why he'll win in November. Had Hillary voted against the war, she would be the nominee. (I do think it's that simple).
May 14, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think he needs to pick a Governor, both for their practical experience and the fact that it would be seen as an acceptable reason not to choose Clinton.
I don't think Richardson will be the eventual choice because I am wary of the double minority ticket AND the fact that the Clinton camp hates his guts and it will be like rubbing salt in the wound.
Mark Warner would be pretty much ideal, however he's looking to join the Senate for the time being to be closer to his young family. I also suspect he's lining up his own run in four or eight years time. Warner vs Jindal in 2016??
I think Brian Schweitzer could be a darkhorse possibility.
May 14, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think being Obama's VP would exactly hurt Warner's chances of being Pres in 2016, do you?
May 14, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think he'd be a stronger candidate after eight years in the Senate and a fresh face on the National scene come 2016. I can't recall where I read it, but he has no interest in the VP spot due to having a young family and wanting certain stability right now. What would he do if he ran with Obama and lost? He'd have nothing to fall back on in Virginia unless Webb wants out in two years time. I just think he likes the idea of a safe senate at this time.
May 14, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was talking about that with my friend last night and i wouldnt be totally surprised if Obama won in some of those plain states like Montana and Wyoming. Obviously, republicans outnumber dems out there, but like i said, this is going to be a really bad year for republicans so maybe, just maybe Obama has a shot at states like montana...
May 14, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Freaktown:
I agree that Webb is not the best choice, but for some different reasons than the ones you cite. Mainly, I want him to stay where he is.
I am in LOVE with Gov. Schweitzer of Montana. Don't know how much of the west he will bring, but he rocks.
I also like Richardson. I think some here seem to be taking New Mexico for granted as an Obama state, which I think is a mistake. This is a swing state, not a blue state. Chuck Todd doesn't even call it swing, he calls it Red.
The Latino community is a swing community. They are not wedded to a party (which is why they got fewer delegates in their districts in Texas than other districts. The Texas Dem scheme rewards loyalty, and they have failed to show it the last two elections). Perhaps Richardson would sway a large number of Latinos.
May 15, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good post; shows signs of independent thought.
Me, I've been pushing Rendell.
May 14, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell's my number one pick, too. He's a governor who's popular in his swing state, and he's a big Hillary supporter, which helps with the "unity" angle.
Second pick is a toss-up between Sibelius and Wes Clark. Clark's another Clinton supporter and he's got executive experience. Sibelius is just pretty awesome.
May 15, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sebelius is my pick as VP, for the way she balances out and mellows the ticket, while reinforcing Obama's bipartisan message.
Plus, despite her stodgy State of the Union rebuttal, she'd be great on the campaign trail.
However, Obama should make clear early on that Richardson is his nominee for Secretary of State.
Solidify the Latino vote, and plan on taking Texas for the Democrats. (Given his own amnesty plan, McCain would have trouble playing the anti-immigrant card.)
With Texas in hand, Obama could afford to lose a lot of West Virginias and Kentuckys to McCain.
May 14, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm warming up to Sebelius, but it's still lukewarm. The correct choice isn't clear yet. I wonder who McCain will pick--what if HE choses a woman? That would have big implications with those women voters so pissed off because Sen. Clinton isn't going to be the Dem nominee.
May 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look out for Kay Bailey Hutchison...she's a darkhorse.
May 14, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Webb isn't interested in VP but he's the best choice. Face it, the Senate is a do nothing institution. The most impotant thing webb could do is help Obama win as opposed to being a low seniority senator. If he's not chosen Obama still needs someone who can't be tarred as unpatriotic...Wesley Clark is my second choice.
May 14, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would be a big loss in Virginia--that senate seat was an R seat until Webb won it.
May 14, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
A lot of independents (and Republicans even) who are attracted to McCain are going to have very similar feelings toward Joe Biden --- and IMO Obama is more likely to excell at being an executive and need the help in dealing with Congress, an absolute MUST to get things done. (And why LBJ made so much sense despite the coolness between them - no one was better at getting things through Congress than LBJ. That was as important, possibly more, than 'placating' the second strongest candidate).
The fact that Biden has been there "forever" doesn't mean that he wouldn't be an agent for change -- in fact, anyone who has followed him knows full well that if he/his party were in power a LOT of things would change - quickly! And he's atypical in a lot of ways - raised his sons on his own for a while, still takes the train home every night rather than staying in Washington, hasn't made a bunch of money over the years.
May 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
All good points except for Ed Rendell. He is definately OLD politics, back room politics and not part of the change message.
May 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why would I not seriously think that Webb would not go on to be president?
May 14, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think removing Webb so soon from a seat he won in a surprise would be a mistake.
I respect Richardson as a person and agree that there would be some advantages to having him on the ticket. But... I'm sorry, but he's just not ready for prime time. I think he'd end up being an embarrassment for Barack. I say this based on those hideous debate performances -- he seemed confused, unprepared, was shamelessly and trasparently pandering (as opposed to having some semblance of believability), and disingenuously espoused some ludicrous positions (I'll remove every single troop from Iraq before I go to sleep on Inauguration Day).
My first pick would probably be Warner. Surely some popular candidate could be found to replace Warner.
I'm worried that picking Sebelius or McCaskill would, in a strange way, further alienate the Hillary voters. I wonder if they would take it as condescension...?
I wonder if he'd consider John Kerry -- and if Kerry would accept it? His lack of campaigning skills aside, I think much of the party still respects him very much. I'm still convinced he'd make a fine veep or president.
May 14, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forget about Kerry and McCaskill. Kerry doesn't bring anything Obama needs to the electoral math. What state can John Kerry win that Obama can't?
And McCaskill is a freshman senator. Same problem with Webb. Besides, as much as i like her, she doesn't seem to have the "gravitas" to be thrust into the vp spot. But she could be an invaluable ally of President Obama in the Senate.
May 14, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The consensus of Rendell is kind of blowing my mind (didn't he just do a huge amount of BS peddling for Hillary in Pennsylvania???
What am I missing here???
I Love Richardson but don't think he helps the ticket too much.
Edwards is one that I think is being under sold.
My #1 choice is Wes Clark. This guy brings some serious cred to this ticket & I just think the world of him having served under both Republican & Democratic administrations, being a 4 star General,
Having supported Hillary's run but keeping it civil, & being ready to lead on day1...
May 14, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes he did. But Rendell strikes me as a happy warrior type who goes out and schills without taking it to seriously or getting too personal. Besides, having one of the most prominent clintonites on the ticket might help "unify" the party, and Rendell just happens to be the governor of a state we absolutely cannot afford to lose.
May 14, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh-and he's jewish too. that might help obama win support among the jews who remain tepid, at best, about his candidacy.
May 14, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Webb has yet to commit his superdelegate vote even though Obama campaigned with him to help him win his Senate seat.
May 14, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
race baiting disqualifies Rendell!
May 14, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dick Cheney
May 14, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would be nepotism.
May 15, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know .... watching Edwards just now .... if it's true that he wanted to "go after" the Republicans more fiercely but was held back by Kerry. I think he has to be considered - seriously.
May 14, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dont think edwards wants the vp spot. he's been there, done that and wasn't happy about it.
he'd be really good as attorney general in any democratic administration. if he wants the job, im sure its his.
May 14, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell looks and sounds like a typical old-fashion (phony) politician. He must turn off younger voters (I imagine -- I can't go back). Richardson has rumored sex scandals in his background.
Webb is a favorite choice because he's well experienced in and out of government (not your typical first term senator), he ran for the Senate because he was so committed to ending the war, he's a populist, and he matches McCain in McCain's strengths:
McCain also has two sons who served in iraq and McCain can use that fact to show how patriotic he is compared to Obama.
But Webb has even more to recommend him: He got a law degree at Georgetown, he's done pro bono work for veterans, he's won an Emmy, he's written novels, he's served in various capacities in DoD, etc. The guy is extremely talented.
The drawback is replacing him in Virginia (where I live). There are just not that many well-known Democrats in this state. That we have three now or soon in high office: Webb, Warner, and Kaine, is the first I've seen in over thirty years in Virginia.
May 14, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
which is one reason why it would be incredibly studpid for the democratic party to give up one of those senate seats. isnt the governor limited to one term tho? so maybe kaine would be the best choice of the three.
May 14, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why wouldn't Sebelius put Kansas in play?
May 14, 2008 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
because its kansas. thats the first answer that pops into my head.
but maybe she could...
May 14, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama already has the ability to put Kansas and Missouri in play, Sebelius would just clinch that.
Sebelius would help Obama in Oklahoma as well.
May 15, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Webb is inexperienced?
?????
Excuse me? And give me a break!
Who did he serve under as Sec. of the Navy?
Where is his son now serving? (starts w/ an 'I')
How many books has he published? Hey, takes some imagination to write a book, you know.
What branch of the military did he serve in and what war was he involved in? What southern state does he represent?
And some of you are telling me that a relatively young, black, progressive candidate that we all adore is supposed to ask one or another woman or some anonymous senator from Pennsylvania or some anonymous governor from Ohio to be on the ticket.
Right.
What Webb would bring to the ticket is EXACTLY what is needed. He is truly 'stand up' and solid gold. By comparison, Bill Clinton is galvanized tin and the latter's wife assay's out the same. Their conduct over the past three months casts an interesting new light upon the suicide of Vince Foster.
May 14, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
my response would be...
He's a freshman one term (thats a bit redundant, isn't it?) senator with little relevant executive experience. And it would be nice to have somebody on the ticket with executive experience.
Having two freshman senators on the same ticket= disaster.
or maybe not.
but i think there are better choices out there.
May 14, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think anyone who's said they don't want to be VP should be automatically considered out of the running, period.
Maybe under another circumstance, it would have been worth it to push for a VP candidate who requires as much convincing to accept the position as the P candidate would require to give it to them. But this time around time is short, the amount of input bloggers and activists have into the process is limited, and two established possible candidates for the VP slot have incredible head starts (Clinton/Edwards) which any attempt to promote an alternative will have to expend significant effort overcoming. Under these exact circumstances every minute promoting a VP candidate who currently doesn't want the job is a minute wasted.
May 14, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Along those lines:
John Edwards says would not accept VP nomination
May 14, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't he also say he wouldn't endorse?
May 14, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Webb is a hothead and prone to popping off. You can't have that in an election that's going to be this close, and I'm not sure he could deliver VA.
May 14, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
When it comes to governing (not just getting elected), Obama's weaker areas are going to be experience in dealing with Congress, foreign affairs, and executive experience -- in that order, I think.
Having a vice president that provides support in one or more of those areas is the most important thing --- and I do believe that if Obama makes an intelligent choice to increase his ability in *governing* then that will help with electability.
May 14, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post. I like Webb, but I think you've talked me out of him as a VP choice. He's excellent at taking on Republicans on the shout shows, but the fact that he's a first-term Senator knocks him out.
(McCaskill too.)
Maybe I'm way behind the curve here, but I haven't seen Sam Nunn's name mentioned here. Does his age make Obama look inexperienced by comparison? Other reasons he shouldn't be worth a look?
Are there any other potential draftees from the ranks of the retired?
May 14, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just throwing some names out...
Dick Gephardt? BORING, but a reliable, usually pretty generic democrat. good on economic and populist issues.
Bill Cohen? A republican, former secdef, a clinton appointee...
Lloyd Bentson? A texas democrat. He had that great line against Quayle, has some pretty solid economic credentials. Downside is that he's been dead for two years. But its a VP spot so nobody will notice.
May 14, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa, I didn't think you'd "go there", but now that the "no dead guys" taboo has been broken, how about Adm. James Stockdale? He didn't really get a fair shake last time around. And you want toughness? Read about his Viet Nam ordeal on his bio page at wikipedia.
May 14, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Traditionally the vice president does nothing beyond helping get the president elected. And, any experience that candidate has will likely be unknown to the average voter. So, I think, still, that the VP candidate needs to be someone who puts another couple of states in play.
Richardson may be that person, or Napolitano, except for giving bigots two reasons to vote against Obama. Wes Clark is a classic example of a VP, but I don't know what states he puts in play.
After long, hard thought, I decided to allow Obama to make this choice.
May 14, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
yes.
but its so fun to speculate about especially on slow news days when there is nothing much to talk about.
May 14, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about Howard Dean?
May 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant!
May 14, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah. cuz nothing screams blue collar working class like a northeastern liberal...
May 14, 2008 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Running the Navy is executive experience.
And under Reagan.
The Republicans won't know what to say about the guy. Can't say no exec experience.
May 14, 2008 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we have to seriously put Daschle on the list - he's close to Obama and has loads of experience. Could be popular in the West. He's kind of boring but often the VP pick is pretty stale because you don't want the VP to take the spotlight away. (again not advocating - just speculating).
May 14, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Daschle makes a lot of sense - good thought! Certainly knows Congress, and Obama's 'map' may make some serious inroads in the west. Daschle would help. (And it's okay for a VP to be a bit boring....)
Bill Cohen's wife is black (classy woman!) - I wonder if folks would think that was 'too much' or something??? And apparently he's close to McCain, was in his wedding party.
John Edwards -- looking at them together today .. and thinking how he would connect with those infamous 'working class whites' .. I think he has to be considered. And in the debates, he sort of 'humanized' Obama.
May 14, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tim Kaine, VA Governor
Erskine Bowles, UNC System President
May 14, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Senator Jack Reed deserves a look:
http://reed.senate.gov/biography/index.cfm
May 14, 2008 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reed is a fantastic Senator, but RI's not going to bring in any new base, otherwise I'd be pushing former Senator Chaffee:
Republican, endorsed by NARAL and the HRC (not Senator HRC), member of "Republicans for Environmental Protection," opposes death penalty and the elimination of the estate tax, only GOP-member to vote for reinstating the top federal income tax rate in 2005, involved in J-Street (pro-Israel peace lobby)... oh yeah... and he was the only Republican to vote against the authorization to use force in Iraq... he's what they call a "RINO."
if you want to read more about him, you should... he's the man.
May 15, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm kind of warming up to the idea of Ted Strickland from Ohio. He's got high approval and low disapproval ratings, which is unusual. And he might bring Ohio with him which would be nice to have in the Dem column this time.
May 15, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
A lot of people in here seem to think that voters will respect a candidate more if he panders to them with his VP choice.
Hillary has been pandering her ass off, and she's not going to win.
Why do you think that strategy will suddenly work with a VP choice?
Did Clinton need Gore to carry Tennessee?
Did George W need Cheney to carry Montana?
Obama should pick someone capable, someone he trusts, someone he feels and looks comfortable with.
May 15, 2008 12:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Chuck Hagel would cover everything Obama is about and extend his support to as yet unimagined voter base.
May 15, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
A believable populist message seems more resonant than any particular individual at this point (that could change of course). I like Edwards. But I really don't know half of the people being tossed around here ... Erskine Bowles?
It seems Edwards could really help with the "working ... hard working, white" vote. He could also provide impetus for an Olive branch to Hillary in adopting some/most/all of her(and his) health proposal into the platform. He has Senate experience, yet also has the benefit of being away from Washington for a while (without the absence being due to losing his seat ... big negative for Daschle).
I'm in the northwest. I think Edwards would be very popular in Montana and Oregon. Nobody's likely to touch Idaho ... but surprisingly the deepest roots here are democratic ("Californians" came in and took over decades ago, pisses the old timers off) and seeds should really be planted. A little attention could go a long way and Edwards would for sure go over well here (notably in the more W.VA-like areas).
I don't know if Obama/Edwards would be the strongest ticket, but it sure would make me smile.
May 15, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sebelius is the daughter of former Ohio governor John J. Gilligan . . . think that'll help at all in OH in Nov?
May 15, 2008 1:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wholeheartedly agree with the thread title. No. Fucking. Senators.
May 15, 2008 2:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Webb has a long resume including such roles as "Secretary of the Navy" and "Assistant Secretary of Defense" under the Reagan administration. The guy's cache is not being a Senator.
May 15, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree with 90% of these posts. Webb would be an AWESOME choice. No, I won't go into details. I think Obama should pick him. I think there's a good chance he will.
May 15, 2008 3:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't like Rendell because he is too much of an old school style politician. Obama needs someone with experience but, that isn't so entrenched in the status quo. Richardson would make an excellent Secy. of State, probably OK as VP too but I think SoS is the best place for him.
Someone with some military creds would be good for going up against McCain. It is a time of war after all and we will still have Afghanistan after we end it in Iraq. That's something Jim Webb brings. His earlier negative comments on women in the military could be a problem though.
Gov. Schwietzer from MT has executive experience and he didn't take lobbyist money for his last campaign. He could be a good fit.
It's certainly fun to ponder. Here is a quick rundown from HuffPo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/obama-vice-president-pick_n_100869.html
May 15, 2008 3:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Spade: "I'm kind of warming up to the idea of Ted Strickland from Ohio" ---- Lots of good reasons to do so BUT one really discouraging thought: seeing, 1,000 times over, the clip of him nodding his head, albeit uncomfortably, while HRC has her "Shame on you, Barack Obama!" fit. That could become stomach-turning (not that it isn't already, just in memory).
May 15, 2008 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
These posts are useless. Some of you are even getting the home states wrong. Others of you obvious don't follow politics that closely. And Lloyd Bentsen died some years back, you knucklehead. A dead man hasn't been put on a presidential ticket since Bob Dole in 1996!
May 15, 2008 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
"A dead man hasn't been put on a presidential ticket since Bob Dole in 1996!"
Until McCain in 2008.
May 15, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unless she turns out to have some kind of skeleton in her closet I think AZ Gov. Janet Napolitano would be an excelent choice. Attack McCain in his home state, and apease those who are supporting Hillary for sexist reasons.
May 15, 2008 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed that Kaine could make a good choice, but I disagree that Webb would be bad.
Your main point against Webb seems to be that having two freshman Senators would be weak against the experience argument from McCain. Sounds right in the abstract, but not on substance.
Webb is a Vietnam veteran and former Secretary of the Navy, bringing truck-loads of grunt, strategic, and executive experience in military and administrative roles.
Webb cannot be defined as simply a freshman Senator.
May 15, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
The argument has nothing to do with having two senators on the ticket. It has to do with maintaining as large a majority as possible in the senate to: 1. avoid filibusters, and 2. cast off that fucking turncoat Lieberman.
May 15, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell is wayyyyy too much of a used car salesman.
May 15, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Put it this way - imagine these phrases getting flung around in the local press throughout the country:
"Vietnam vet", "Assistant Secretary of Defense", "Secretary of the Navy", "has a son in Iraq now", "former Republican, became a Democrat", "praised by Ronald Reagan for his military service", "was against the Iraq war from the beginning", "proposed the new GI bill now opposed by McCain", etc.
If this is not the 'tough cred' Obama's ticket needs on the ground in Appalachia and other areas I don't know what is.
BTW, Webb is an author with intellectual strength and honesty too, so I don't imagine him turning off the latte-liberal crowd either.
May 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think some of you have made compelling arguments for Webb. Point made that he's not your typical Senator and maybe he really puts VA in play - which would be a huge electoral vote take away.
My initial reaction to two Senators is "no," and I'm not so thrilled about someone who recently changed parties. But I can see the appeal and wouldn't be angry at the pick. It makes some sense.
May 15, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would echo many of the voices above, especially 'mcdonald928' who hits the nail on the head.
I once thought this was a bad idea. Then I studied up on Webb. He has much more experience than the typical first-term Senator.
In a nutshell, I now believe he is perfect.
He brings Virginia further into play. He can help in nearby Pennsylvania and North Carolina as well. And he represents the Hillary wing of the party (conservative Dems) while matching McCain on the military experience and gravitas right down the line. He's also a change-agent, like Obama, one who talks honestly and will connect with rural, white voters. In fact, I'd let him roam the Appalachian trail and bring those voters home.
As far as being a loose-canon or outspoken: anyone note the way Cheney leveraged the position? The VP position is perfect for this type of get-in-your-face voice.
The best part is his ardent, personal stand against the Iraq War. Obama and Webb together would be a powerful and symbolic reminder of what this election must really be about: Bush and his cronies complete and utter failure in Iraq, a misstep that has led to a forced American isolationism and an economy teetering on disaster.
May 15, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would echo many of the voices above, especially 'mcdonald928' who hits the nail on the head.
I once thought this was a bad idea. Then I studied up on Webb. He has much more experience than the typical first-term Senator.
In a nutshell, I now believe he is perfect.
He brings Virginia further into play. He can help in nearby Pennsylvania and North Carolina as well. And he represents the Hillary wing of the party (conservative Dems) while matching McCain on the military experience and gravitas right down the line. He's also a change-agent, like Obama, one who talks honestly and will connect with rural, white voters. In fact, I'd let him roam the Appalachian trail and bring those voters home.
As far as being a loose-canon or outspoken: anyone note the way Cheney leveraged the position? The VP position is perfect for this type of get-in-your-face voice.
The best part is his ardent, personal stand against the Iraq War. Obama and Webb together would be a powerful and symbolic reminder of what this election must really be about: Bush and his cronies complete and utter failure in Iraq, a misstep that has led to a forced American isolationism and an economy teetering on disaster.
May 15, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Webb: There is the issue of his being too much of a loose cannon and not on (Obama's) message as VP candidate and VP.
Rendell: Rumor is he has zipper problems and possibly corruption problems that would not withstand national scrutiny.
Strickland: Apparently is not pro-Abortion rights, which should rule him out.
The one I don't hear about, but wish we would is former Florida Senator Graham... beloved former senator and governor, prescient about the war (chair of Intelligence committee with oversight of CIA, etc; voted against and explained why at the time! Hillary would be Prez if she had listened), elder statesman... etc. the only question is age and health.
May 15, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Joe Biden should be put at the top of the list today on the basis of just one word!
May 15, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I honestly think picking a VP based on the notion that he/she puts regions/states into play is childish thinking, at most.
Jack Reed, as I mentioned earlier is worth a look. He blows Jim Webb out of the water in my opinion. His military service is outstanding and his knowledge on foreign affairs seems to be pretty engaging. His economic grasp is stellar, and his vast record of being a straight arrow is precisely what Obama can vibe with.
May 15, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say that the best choice would be (a) a woman and (b) someone who NEVER supported or voted for the Iraq War Resolution (IWR) back when. (There are other reasons -- divisiveness, baggage -- why I STRONGLY OPPOSE the idea of a "dream" ticket w/Hillary on it, as it might be a 'dream' ticket for McCain's chances of winning).
That said, my first choice is Barbara Boxer -- LONG resume on foreign policy, VERY popular and enthusiasm-inspiring, uniting, strong on Greenhouse (for a pol), little that I know of by way of baggage and of course voted NO on the IWR.
Other possibilities include Stabenow (who also voted no, I believe, along with Murray), Sebelius, mentioned here and who apparently opposed IWR all along, and Napolitano (not sure about IWR stance in 2002).
As for males, if Webb can help Obama win then mazel tov. He apparently publicly opposed the Iraq War back when, and in a state and constituency where that took guts. Schweitzer is another, and said strong politically. Feingold is another possible.
Richardson is a possibility, and might help electorally at least as much as any of the other candidates in the primaries. I am not wild about ANY of them for the VP spot, though. I like Kucinich's politics but he would cost Obama urgently needed votes.
But the reasons for nominating a woman -- to unify the party and inspire many otherwise disgruntled women to vote for the ticket and enthusiastically campaign too -- seem too strong for me to favor ANY of the male candidates I mentioned over the strongest female contenders.
May 16, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama's best choice for VP is to pick someone who everyone agrees unanimously has the gravitas, experience, and foreign policy credentials to fill the job. Obama is weak on the "experience" side, and this is a very important issue for many voters. In fact, some exit polls have recently shown "experience" matters more to independent voters than "change" (a contrast to some polls earlier in the primary process).
Therefore, I agree that Webb would not be an ideal choice. I would argue that Chris Dodd would make a great safe choice. Nobody would get all that excited about an older white guy who's been in Washington a long time, it's true. But boring could be just what Obama needs to reassure voters uneasy with Obama's experience credentials. Dodd doesn't help to win a swing state or make history in any way, but his policy positions complement Obama's nicely and he's already endorsed Obama. Go Dodd!
May 16, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink