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LIBEL: Obama campaigners caught spreading altered video that libels Team Clinton '92 with fake racial slurs
Some of you may have seen a doctored-up video being spread by Obama supporters. It isolates an excerpt of the documentary film The War Room (1993) in which 1992 Clinton campaign chair Mickey Kantor expresses excitement that Indianans are leaning toward Bill Clinton over White House incumbent George Bush. The altered video features a fake caption with a racial slur against Indianans (who vote next week), in an attempt to guide viewers into thinking that Kantor actually says such terrible words.
Even the The Huffington Post, which has leaned in favor of Obama, has posted this article refuting this shameless ploy:
Discussion Questions:
1. Why are Obama supporters spreading this doctored up video both here on TPM and elsewhere? Don't they realize that libel makes them look desperate?
2. Of all things to choose, why did the person who doctored up the video choose a racial slur? That pot does not need to be stirred.
3. Do you think that the people who doctored up this video think that they were actually going to get away with this antic?
I call for TPM to take down the LIBEL.
Even the The Huffington Post, which has leaned in favor of Obama, has posted this article refuting this shameless ploy:
The sound suggests, if anything, that instead of saying "How would you like to be a worthless white n****r?" Kantor says, "How would you like to be in the White House right now?"I haven't seen anybody report this yet, but I was up late last night and saw it develop—and the chronology of TPM reader posts will verify this: Before they dreamed up the racial slur, the Obama supporters who made the video were actually focusing on twisting Kantor's first comment: "...look at Indiana. 42-40. It doesn't matter if we win; those people are shit." The posts here on TPM insinuated that Kantor was calling Indianans "shit" when Kantor was clearly referring to the incumbent Bush administration, not Indianans. Of course, when you don't see the whole conversation, you might not catch that, but the video and documentarian himself both put that to rest, too.
Discussion Questions:
1. Why are Obama supporters spreading this doctored up video both here on TPM and elsewhere? Don't they realize that libel makes them look desperate?
2. Of all things to choose, why did the person who doctored up the video choose a racial slur? That pot does not need to be stirred.
3. Do you think that the people who doctored up this video think that they were actually going to get away with this antic?
I call for TPM to take down the LIBEL.
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Your title gives the impression that this is from Obama's campaign. I'd say that's a bit disingenuous and unworthy of you.
May 2, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I might even call it libel.
May 2, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly... That was my point entirely. Notice the way I put the "LIBEL: " before it.
I was trying to point out how easy it is to twist someone's words.
May 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be clear: what I wrote was not libel. I did not say "Obama campaign"... I said "Obama campaigner"
But my point stands.
May 2, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Obama campaigner is spreading the video? If you can't name one, I'll have to conclude that you are lying.
By the way, contemporaneous news articles agree that Kantor was calling the people of Indiana "shit." See Tapper's latest post.
May 2, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, you have lost the plot here.
May 2, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's most entertaining about watching Clinton apologists like yourself Left is seeing the lying, spinning and attacking to protect your losing candidate. Can you say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky?"
Clinton Trollarama.
May 2, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
prove that the video was doctored.
prove that someone in the obama campaign is circulating it.
you can't do either.
who's guilty of libel, now?
May 2, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, according to Ben Smith of Politico, the poster of the video admitted that it was doctored—in the sense that he "cleaned up" the audio. He adamantly denies adding any audio, however.
May 2, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the latest article from Ben Smith, along with his revised opinion:
May 2, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I wrote was technically not false: it was a pro-Obama person, and this does constitute "campaigning". However, by choosing these words, it seems like the Obama campaign did it.
I chose that title intentionally to make the point that it is SOOOO easy to use language in a crafty way to make someone look worse.
But in this case, it was outright lying.
May 2, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I think it's no more lying than what you posted. Here's my theory: these three are talking about what George Bush must be thinking right now. They're putting (snarky) words in his mouth. Hence, they feel free to use words that they themselves would never use. This explains the "White House" reference that precedes the "white ni**er" reference (I can hear both in the "original" version that we're pointed to in the HuffPo article).
So, I don't think they're stating it as their own opinion, but I do think they're using those words. Much like your title it's misleading but not technically incorrect.
May 2, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's some very creative thinking.
May 2, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the best light I can shine on these guys. Any other logic has them looking worse, not better.
May 2, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Left have you read Genghis' post about excessive posting? You had your shrill say, and then you posted, and posted and posted. Evidently you do not think you write clearly, or concisely enough to let your words stand alone, without bleat, after bleat, after bleat. Time to turn right, and quit.
May 2, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give me a break. You're not making any "point" using that title. You're simply lying. It's not even "technically" correct.
May 2, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously and 100% correct.
May 2, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you know the video wasn't recorded by a 1992 Clinton/Gore campaign staffer whose been holding onto it all of these years and decided to release it after becoming disgusted with the Clinton campaigns actions?
May 2, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, that clip is part of a documentary (War Room, I believe) that you could probably find at Blockbusters. However, this clip has had the audio enhanced to make it easier to hear. After hearing the enhanced version, I can also hear it in the original version.
May 2, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and if Chris Brown would read the blogs he responds to, he'd know that. I very clearly said this.
May 2, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, This kind of reminds me about some clips being circulated on YouTube of a certain pastor taken WAY out of context, and being used against a certain candidate who clearly did not share those views.
Hmmmmm.
Run like a Republican, get treated like one!
May 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except in the case of Wright, nobody changed his words into worse words.
May 2, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. Just like this case, they were merely taken out of context.
May 2, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh come on... even in context, Wright's words are problematic, and Obama himself has railed against those words.
Give it a rest, Ben.
May 2, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some of his words (AIDS) are problematic even in context, I'll give you that. However, many of the words in that infamous collection were not problematic ("chickens coming home to roost", "God DAMN America") when put in the proper context.
May 2, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, I actually agree with your opinion about the God Damn America and chickens roosting comments.
However, there were plenty of comments, especially that "Hillary ain't never been called a n****r" one, that were SO VILE that you can't compare these two situations, even if Kantor HAD said that word.
But he didn't. None of the news media has posted this on their sites because it's total bullshit, and all of the blogs that have posted something about this have emphasized it's a doctored video and cleared Kantor.
May 2, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correction... all blogs except Kos... But there's a shocker.
May 2, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are unhinged and it is very sad. I feel sorry for them.
May 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, of course there is also the "school of Rove" which dictates that your points #2 and #3 are meaningless, if your assumption (point) #1 is false...
Or another way of putting it, how do you know who is behind the release, and what their true motive is?
May 2, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to follow up, I reject the b.s. implication of the video, just like the b.s. propaganda war against Obama, and the other b.s. propaganda wars that have passed for political discourse the last few cycles...
BUT!
The REAL truth of the video IS UNDENIABLE: look at Georgie S. before his SOUL was murdered by ABC!!!
He was alive.
Passionate even.
Idealistic.
A little more hair.
Yup, fucking ABC.
May 2, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, com'on! ABC didn't do to Pizza Face anything that he did not do to himself. Don't forget what his function was in the administration. Idealist? Maybe. But he was also a major-league spinster and a kiss-up. Nothing's changed. Same old Georgie, just a touch older (but hardly wiser).
Don't blame ABC for the color of their money.
May 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hehehe,
Ok, Buck. Didn't know the Disney fans would take that as a serious comment... I guess with all the Hannah Montana trouble things are a little touchy...
(I wanted to put a Vanity Fair spoof image up here, but googling "George Stephanopoulos" and "bareback" gives some in appropriate results --nudge nudge, wink wink
May 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think May 6th will officially be the equinox of Silly Season... hopefully after then we'll be on the downward side of the slope back towards reality.
May 2, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully it won't be the equinox but the solstice! ;)
May 2, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Doh! That's what I meant. I need more coffee!
May 2, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh my! I guess there is no low too low for an Obamaniac. Let's see, these are the Obama rules:
1) Obama must not be held responsible for any words said by his pastor of 20 years, the man who married him and his wife and baptized their children.
2) Clinton must be held responsible for the words of a campaign aide to her husband and stand accused of racism based on that recording.
3) The Rev Wright's actual words must not be judged without taking them into context.
4) However, it's okay to make judgements based on Kantor's DOCTORED words.
5) It's wrong to distribute true and honest recordings of Rev. Wright.
6) It's okay to distribute falsified, doctored recordings of Mickey Kantor.
If this is the New America, give me the old. At least the stench of hypocrisy is less.
May 2, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I haven't heard a single person make the argument you're making. Rather, I've heard them comment that if Obama is to be held responsible for the words of Wright, then why shouldn't Clinton be held responsible for these words. (Again, read the Ben Smith article on the "doctoring".) This is a conditional argument of the format that A==B (i.e., the truth values of A and B are equivalent), which you're trying to twist into not(A) and B.
I.e., they're the ones complaining about hypocrisy.
May 2, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I think that it's a good, general rule, regardless of your political leanings or affinities for a particular candidate, to defer judgment on ANYONE's comments until one has placed them in the proper context. Just a thought.
May 2, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
That makes waaaay to much sense.
May 2, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
1) Obama must not be held responsible for any words said by his pastor of 20 years, the man who married him and his wife and baptized their children.
I agree. Obama should not be held responsible for someone else's words whose views he clearly doesnot share. However, he is being held responsible for them so whats wrong with holding Hillary Clinton to the same standard?
May 2, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing... The only difference is that Kantor did not say such words. They were fabricated.
May 2, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Re-read the Politico article. They were not fabricated. You can argue that we're only hearing them because we were primed to hear them, but even in the original version I can still hear those exact same words.
May 2, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are among a very small minority, dude. I don't hear the word "n****r" at all.
May 2, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
The difference is Clinton is not basing her campaign on ending this kind of BS. She is the master of it. We in the Obama camp should be consistent and not try to go to the politics of personal destruction because it undermines our candidates main argument. We beocme the thing we hate just as Clinton has done after being attacked with this kind of BS by the GOP.
We are suposed to be better than this.
May 2, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
1. Why are Obama supporters spreading this doctored up video both here on TPM and elsewhere? Don't they realize that libel makes them look desperate?
They believe they are entitled to do and say anything to win. They believe they have the right to deny me my right to have my vote count. Their arrogance and sense of privilege is limitless.
2. Of all things to choose, why did the person who doctored up the video choose a racial slur? That pot does not need to be stirred.
Where have you been, they have been making accusations of racism since the beginning. They are not supporting Obama, they are hating Clinton. People who support Obama would not do this. This is not pro-Obama people, it's anti-Clinton people and Obama is the incidental beneficiary.
3. Do you think that the people who doctored up this video think that they were actually going to get away with this antic?
Yes, they did. The Clinton-haters are set apart by their tremendous arrogance and privilege. They think they know everything and so it never occurs to them that the truth will out.
May 2, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that we shouldn't be spreading this video, but do note who posted this particular blog entry.
May 2, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh please. The video has ALREADY spread. I posted this to set the record straight.
What is with you today? You are being uncharacteristically unreasonable about this.
May 2, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I'm trying to defend Clinton, but I know you're not seeing it that way. I can't, however, deny what my ears heard—in the "original" version.
I'm not blaming you for trying to set the record straight, either. I'm just pointing out that you brought it up in the blog that Oregon Activist chose to complain about it being brought up. (After all, by my count, you're the 16th blog entry to bring it up, but you're the first one to bring it up from a pro-Clinton point-of-view.)
May 2, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I was answering his questions.
And I don't fault the OBama campaign. But judging by the people here, this is not about supporting OBama, it's about hating Clinton.
You know, overall, the subject of the posts on TPM is Clinton, not Obama. Most of the Obama supporters don't really talk about him that much, they talk about her. Few even seem to know what his policies are and they are maniacally wrong about her policies.
Bottom line, my question is whether the base of Obama's support is Clinton hatred rather than support for Obama. IF so, it's ephemeral and can't be counted on.
I have read about 5 posts in the last month that were serious about why the poster liked and supported Obama. This is not a pro-Obama site, it's a Clinton-hating site.
May 2, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a REALLY REALLY good point.
It is shameful how much hate these people spew, and then when they get caught proliferating a doctored up video, with, generously putting it, subjective interpretation, they fight back as if they had a right to do it.
*I am referring only to a small subset of Obama supporters, and certainly not Ben Hocking, who is generally extremely reasonable. Ben—I firmly disagree with what your ears are hearing, but I appreciate your attempt to reconcile it nonetheless.
May 2, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, and I know enough about priming and confirmational bias to know that my ears can be fooling me. (There's actually a very good story about this involving rats, an optical illusion, and electrodes placed in the V2 cortex, but I'll try to avoid a threadjack.)
That said, although I can admit that I might be imagining it, I can't step outside of my own head. I still hear it.
(Cue Galileo's apocryphal words: "And yet, it moves.")
May 2, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
How does your false title "set the record straight?"
May 2, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
From a non-obama-supporter point of view, this doens't look desperate, it seems a hell of a lot more credible than the Wright-non-issue and in terms of "Kool-aid drinkers" and "Cult followers" the Klintonites win the grand prize.
May 2, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like I said earlier, Clinton trolls are on the defensive– which is by attacking.
I'd bet they'd blame the Right Wing Conspiracy if it wasn't already who they've been kissing up to in the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife.
Will they blame Obama supporters for Bill Clinton red-faced racist fairy tale, Jesse Jackson rants in South Carolina? Is the Obama Campaign to blame for Geraldine Ferraro?
Watch Keith Olberman's Special Report again about Hillary's injection of racism into the race for the nomination for a reminder of why this makes perfect sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtAja20kTCA
Then watch the Clinton trolls attack, spin and blame. I'm counting how many people they've accused (including myself) about "doctoring" Kantor's video–only it's undoctored, and Kantor is lying his behind off.
May 2, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bizarro World - that's what it is.
To an Obamaniac, when Clinton responds "of course not, there is no basis for that." she is insinuating Obama is Muslim.
To an Obamaniac, then their side slanders and lies to build up race animus and distrust, it's Clinton's fault.
and you say we are desperate. Well, perhaps desperate to find someone whose support for Obama is based on something more than hating Clinton. Someone who has some other reason for supporting him and has something else to talk about. Like maybe a list of reasons they support Obama instead of a list of reasons they hate Clinton.
May 2, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have not commented on the Kantor tape until now. I am a dedicated backer of Senator Obama. Here is where I stand on the issue.
Worse case scenario, if Kantor did actually say what the video is supposed to reveal him saying, then it is still just that one person saying it. That would make him not the nicest person in the world, but why should we play the guilt by association game, like Hillary did against Senator Obama.
The reason why many of us admire Senator Obama is because he has refused to stoop that low. I will not either.
May 2, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree totally. However, I have very little sympathy at this point for Senator Clinton in this matter--what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
May 2, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You do realize that basically every blog except Kos has cleared Kantor in this matter, and your continued doubts are just ridiculous, right?
May 2, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looked at Tapper lately?
May 2, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, have you? Tapper says he can't check the original video because he is sitting in a cafe.
May 2, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moreover, he just updated his blog.
UPDATE: Let me make this clearer: I NEVER posted the doctored video with Kantor using the N-word.
Gee... why would he say that? Because he knows it's libel.
May 2, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you missed the part about the contemporaneous news accounts saying that Kantor had insulted the people of Indiana.
May 2, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
URGENT, AND "TRUE"!!!! OUR FAMILY FOUND OUT LAST NIGHT THAT HILLARY AND BILL CLINTON ARE INVOLVED IN A FRAUD LAWSUIT!!! THE PLAINTIFF IS PETER F. PAUL, AND THE CALIFORNIA SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE (AURELIO MUNOZ) HAS GIVEN THE GO AHEAD TO MR. PAULS' LAWYERS TO TAKE DEPOSITIONS. HILLARY, WILL NOT BE DEPOSED UNTIL AFTER NOVEMBER, DUE TO THE ELECTIONS. BILL CLINTON, WILL BE DEPOSED REAL SOON, AS WELL AS, OTHER PARTIES INVOLVED. WE DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT MANY PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT, INCLUDING THE MEDIA!! YOU CAN VIEW IT FOR YOURSELF AT: http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/casesummary.asp?Referer=index
The Case Number is: BC304174
WE FOUND OUT THAT HILLARY HAS ALREADY BEEN FINED $35K, BY THE FEC (FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION), BECAUSE SHE LIED AND MIS REPORTED HER CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS. FROM MR. PAUL. PLEASE, DO YOUR RESEARCH!! OUR COUNTRY CANNOT AFFORD TO GO FROM WAR TO WATERGATE (PT. 2)!!! THIS STORY IS "TRUE"!!
May 2, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
what about the Clinton supporter who invited Rev Wright to speak at the National Press Club?
That os FAR worse and you don't see the Obama people crying over it-- because all these connections are tangential
Hillary has way more unsavory connections than Obama ever could- the man is trying to elevate the discourse-- it's the Clinton campaign continually throwing mud via surrogates (see the Sidney Blumetnal piece??)
puh-leese
It the throwing mud race - Clinton wins hands down
May 2, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
obama people have been crying over it for days - even though it is as illogical as many of their other accusations. In fact, you are crying over it right now.
By the way, when she arranged this, you all were talking about how great he did on Moyers and that more people seeing more of him would benefit Obama. It's only when he went all petulant and did his best to sabotage OBama that this seemed a bad idea.
So...if it was good for Obama until he did his sabotage, then why was it a plot? Or was Clinton's supporter some all-knowing clairvoyant?
Sometimes you Obamaniacs are so desperately paranoid you are downright funny.
May 2, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are allot of Obama people who argued with other Obama people as to whether or not it is or not a real clip! Contrast that to all the Hillary people who for the whole week rationalized Hillary's Bosnia lie, until she was forced to say she misspoke and then later said she did because she was sleep deprived.....Im sorry, AND TO ALL OF THE ELITE WHO WANT KEEP SAYING THAT OBAMA AND HIS SUPPORTERS ARE THE SAME THINKING YOU ARE SOMEHOW BETTER THAN ALL OF US, YOU REALLY SHOULD STOP THAT SHIT!!! Im so tired of being looped with other people (Obama supporters) because I know what I have seen from Hillary and dont like it! Any freakin Democrat should be able to point that out if they are being honest! Either you like her behavior or not, but dont say both campaigns and people are the same, because they are not!....Im so f'n tired of this campaign, and it aint because of Obama's character or behavior!!!!!
May 2, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink