Barry People - Can we chill?
Greg Sargent asked the question: Was The Media Unfair To Hillary? Commenters went berserk. I understand that they think the question was asked unfairly. I understand the perception that Obama and Clinton weren't treated the same. I understand that some think Obama got treated more roughly. I understand that some think Sargent was suggesting that Obama supporters were tolerating or egging on the attacks on Clinton.
But I thought most of the points that Sargent raised were fair. He gives the Clintons far more credit than I would for having good intentions. But there's no way to prove it. I thought Obama's "likeable enough" comment wasn't very graceful. I understand that politicians don't always express things in the most graceful fashion.
My perception was that both Bill and Hillary were letting their emotions overtake their intellect. They felt under attack. They felt they were being denied things they were owed. And so they spoke in a manner that seemed to suggest additional meanings.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Clintons are that ruthless. Maybe they meant that black politicians can only attract black voters, that hope is a fair tale, that someone might take a shot at Obama. But that way lies madness. I sure don't want Obama held to that standard.
I'm just saying, can we chill out a little? The Obama team won. Can we be magnanimous in our victory? It's ridiculous enough that Clinton supporters are talking about voting for McCain. We won. So can we stop whining about how Obama got tougher treatment than Clinton, how Clinton and her supporters were mean or nasty, how we need to keep fighting this battle?
The general has started. Let's keep our eyes on the prize. The real enemy is the Republicans and John McCain. Let's aim the anger in the right direction.
But I thought most of the points that Sargent raised were fair. He gives the Clintons far more credit than I would for having good intentions. But there's no way to prove it. I thought Obama's "likeable enough" comment wasn't very graceful. I understand that politicians don't always express things in the most graceful fashion.
My perception was that both Bill and Hillary were letting their emotions overtake their intellect. They felt under attack. They felt they were being denied things they were owed. And so they spoke in a manner that seemed to suggest additional meanings.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Clintons are that ruthless. Maybe they meant that black politicians can only attract black voters, that hope is a fair tale, that someone might take a shot at Obama. But that way lies madness. I sure don't want Obama held to that standard.
I'm just saying, can we chill out a little? The Obama team won. Can we be magnanimous in our victory? It's ridiculous enough that Clinton supporters are talking about voting for McCain. We won. So can we stop whining about how Obama got tougher treatment than Clinton, how Clinton and her supporters were mean or nasty, how we need to keep fighting this battle?
The general has started. Let's keep our eyes on the prize. The real enemy is the Republicans and John McCain. Let's aim the anger in the right direction.
Advertisement
It is more than a little remarkable that we have to constantly remind certain Obama supporters to, you know, actually take some time and enjoy the victory. To maybe not be whiney cry-babies all of the time. To not see bias or a conspiracy under every article at TPM. To allow for a graceful exit from the opposing campaign. To comport themselves in the same way their favorite candidate consistently does... you know with a touch of grace, dignity and magnanimity.
Is all that really too much to ask?
Well, it's been "over" for some time now and little has changed for many within these pages. So, I guess we're beginning to see what the answer to that is.
Or, to put all that another way:
Grow up you little fucking babies! Heh-heh. ;^}
June 17, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
What many are forgetting is the shenanigans obviously being employed by the right. I stand in firm belief that a large percentage of crap being spewed by both "Hillary" & "Obama" supporters are actually coming from right wing hacks trying to foment division. We should all keep that in mind & remember to only react to McCain attacks. What else do they have???
June 17, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check out Jade's post downthread a bit. Is she one of those "right wing hacks trying to foment division"?
June 17, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Within TPM, I don't think this is a problem. When Greg Sargent asks if Hillary got fair treatment, he's asking earnestly. I think people are getting worked up because Obama has some enemies from within our own party who are playing into a Republican line of attack. The Hillaryis44ers, the Confluence people, the PUMA people, Larry Johnson and his merry morons... In a close election these Democratic defectors from a close primary are part of McCain's strategy.
I supported Edwards, then Hillary for much of the campaign and then finally Obama, but I never threatened to vote Republican or to stay home. Most people here at TPM never made that threat.'
And I think if it were just a matter of some one like BvD, committed to figuring out the truth about how the primary went but also committed to beating McCain, folks wouldn't react so violently to all the Hillary talk.
But here's what they might see now, and I think it's legitimate: Hillary conceded, her supporters have no rational reason to vote for McCain but some of her supporters, perhaps a crucial amount in some areas of the country, are threatening to hand McCain the White House over it so please stop fanning the flames.
There's also the sense, and I think it's fair, that the sexism talk is meant to diminish Obama's accomplishment. It means "He didn't beat her, she was beaten by unfair treatment." One real McCain weakness is that McCain didn't win his primary, he survived it as his opponents either mismanaged their campaigns or took each other out for him. All of the sudden we Democrats seem intent on matching McCain's disadvantage by making Obama's win into a story of Hillary's loss.
So, I understand why Democrats might be frustrated by the "what happened to Hillary?" line. But, we do have to figure out what happened to Hillary. Because some of it was her own fault, I think, while she was also unfairly treated.
June 17, 2008 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't claim to speak for all Obama supporters. But I do have a pretty good memory, and find even Sargent's "reporting" of what happened to Hillary overblown.
One case in point: the so-called "likeable enough" comment.
No one -- and I mean NO ONE -- has yet reproduced the quote in its entirety. And doing so, in my ego-inflated opinion, makes a big difference.
Hillary was asked the gratuitous question of why she thought people didn't like her. She played schoolgirl coy and batted her eyelashes and told us her feelings were hurt by the question. Obama, busy making notes with his head down (and thus not horning in on Hillary time in the spotlight) is asked by Hillary his opinion. Head down, continuing to write (and if you look at the video once more, a wry quarter-smile (as if "i'm trying really hard not to smile, but why the hell are you drawing me into this") Obama deadpans:
"You're likeable enough, Hillary. No doubt about it."
"no doubt about it," the part that no one seems to remember... and that tempers his response as not some finger-raising, bird-flipping, "fluck" off kinda moment. Whether or not people like her is Hillary's problem, not Obama's. And it damn sure isn't "unfair" or "mistreatment."
See, it's just this kind of half-assed reporting that pisses me off... and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of Obama supporters who get the same reaction.
Greg Sargent's piece yesterday was another in a long line of Hillary-sympathy cards that bear little resemblance to the truth.
Now while we can rejoice that "we" won, I think some of "our" anger is that a moment that should have been a big victory, a moment of celebration for something that has never happened in this country, is dampened by having to walk on eggshells, and continue to watch this never-ending pity party for Hillary.
June 17, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jade, with all due respect your recent post had nothing to do with the truth or creating a meaningful dialogue to bridge the divide between Obaam and Hillary voters. It had everything to do with continuing to peddle Hillary hate and apologize (and contine) sexist attacks against her. If that's walking on eggshells, you must have been the worst of the worst in the primary campaign.
Continuing to peddle that crap is turning off the same borderline Hillary voters who are also angry at what they see as unfair treatment against Hillary. Understand that it is in Obama's interests to retain these voters and McCain is making an obvious play for them. As a Hillary supporter, I can do my part to get over my anger and woo the Hillary supporters to support Obama because he's NOT MCCAIN based on logic and reason. You make the job much much harder when you are peddling lies and more attacks against Hillary.
Just my 2 cents. Feed your anger or bridge the divide. Your choice.
June 17, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jade...I think some of "our" anger is that a moment that should have been a big victory, a moment of celebration for something that has never happened in this country, is dampened by having to walk on eggshells, and continue to watch this never-ending pity party for Hillary.
So...when Obama got over the finish line barely ahead of Clinton, you didn't get the kegger of your dreams and that makes you mad enough to drive away potential Obama voters? Is that your logic?
June 17, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
**It's over. Stop it. OK? Who the hell cares about Clinton at this point. We've got an Obama to put in the WH.
June 17, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
And here's a point. There are current events going on that are pertinent to this race that are not being covered on this site, while Greg continues to focus on Hillary. We would like for Greg to move on and cover what's happening in this race. Please. Pretty please. With sugar on top.
June 17, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are current events going on that are pertinent to this race that are not being covered on this site...
Then start your own site and cover them and become an innernets hero, OK? Everyone will flock to YOU because YOU alone are covering the current events going on that are pertinent to this race so you've got the ready-made market. What's stopping you?
Get over yourself.
June 17, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, IndieX, your solution is that if we don't care to discuss Hillary, but would prefer to focus on the election, we should take a hike?
Mmmmm...Good luck with that.
Hillary's done. Sorry 'bout that. She lost. I know that makes you sad. But, it's a fact. At some point, you're just going to have to accept it.
June 18, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You lost me when you used Barry instead of Barack. It's only respect to use the name someone has chosen for him- or herself. I wasn't interested in anything you had to say after that, which I consider rude and intentionally so.
June 17, 2008 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oblivious to all of this was a perpetually smiling toddler the entire family called Barry.
His family was rude?
June 17, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The real enemy is the Republicans and John McCain. Let's aim the anger in the right direction."
AND HERE YA GO.....
Have you seen the button pin going on sale at the Texas GOP convention? It is so disgusting, sick and wrong I can't even believe it - It's a huge black button with white letters that reads:
If Obama Is President, Will We Still Call It The White House? source: Politico Web Site - Ben Smith - June 17, 2008.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
I emailed the RNC and will email Texas. I'm so outraged and hope everyone here will contact RNC and Texas and whoever else to voice their outrage too!
June 17, 2008 11:16 PM | Reply | Permalink