FISA Round Two: Senate Time!
I just got off the phone with a nice representative in Senator Clinton's office. She confirms that Senator Clinton opposes the current FISA bill and any retoractive immunity for telecoms. I asked if she would appear in the Senate to oppose or filibuster and they said her schedule hasn't been released. I pointed out that she has agreed to a joint campaign appearance with Senator Obama on Friday June 27th and the representative did confirm that Senator Clinton isn't unavailable on vacation or anything like that. So, no promises. But they admit that she isn't away on some post election seclusion retreat as some have implied.
Might be a good idea if more called Clinton and really push on the issue of her making a campaign appearance with Obama. I'd like to see them make a far more important appearance together on the Senate Floor.
(202) 224-4451
Don't be afraid to call, they're nice.
Of course, Senator Obama (202) 224-2854 needs to take the leadership role on this since he's our leader as we head into battle with the McCaininites.
But, there were also two other Senators who ran for president who promised to oppose telecom immunity. Chris Dodd (who made it an issue in the first place and can be thanked at (202) 224-2823) and Joe Biden (202) 224-5042.
Let's get the Democratic Primary Class of 2008 together in the Senate! That's true party unity.
Might be a good idea if more called Clinton and really push on the issue of her making a campaign appearance with Obama. I'd like to see them make a far more important appearance together on the Senate Floor.
(202) 224-4451
Don't be afraid to call, they're nice.
Of course, Senator Obama (202) 224-2854 needs to take the leadership role on this since he's our leader as we head into battle with the McCaininites.
But, there were also two other Senators who ran for president who promised to oppose telecom immunity. Chris Dodd (who made it an issue in the first place and can be thanked at (202) 224-2823) and Joe Biden (202) 224-5042.
Let's get the Democratic Primary Class of 2008 together in the Senate! That's true party unity.
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Thanks, 23.
June 20, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rec'd & will call. While I know that Obama needs to move to the center for the general election, there are some issues too important to play political games with and this is one of them. I encourage not just Senators Clinton, Dodd & Biden, but all the Democrats in the Senate to stand with Obama and vote NO against this bill.
Return to rule of law. No retroactive immunity for the telecoms.
June 20, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, barack Obama is Atrios' Wanker of the Day.
Who'd have believed:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/201032.php
He does say that he'll work to remove immunity in the Senate but it's hard to see how and we should all watch what he does next week.
This is... a bit unforgivable, isn't it?
June 20, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
He earned that title with today's release.
June 20, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Atrios is my wanker of the Universe.
June 21, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. He's going full chicken little on this one.
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
June 21, 2008 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. It's not, and if you don't learn some self-discipline and figure out what's important here (namely, taking the White House back from the Republicans), you're going to be working against your own best interests. Barack Obama is not the President of the United States. He's also no longer a United States Senator. What he is is the Democratic Party's nominee. And if he acts stupidly and plays to the left on this issue, he'll lose the election--sure as shit.
We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House. We're trying to take back the White House.
June 21, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
the bunny -- dig it
June 21, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's decision was a big disappointment for me, but I do agree with you. He absolutely has to move himself more to the center, or he will lose the election. This decision also takes some of the bite out of McCain's argument that he is "soft on terrorism".
June 21, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great support you have for this fantasy of yours destor.
Take dijamo, the supposedly young black woman who was supposedly a Hillary supporter and is still very bitter about Obama and misses no oppurtunity to point out how bad he is, often with rather specious claims.
June 21, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, hey, hey! Dijamo totally rocks! She's angry, but she gets it. Don't mess with my sister, bud. Dijamo's on our side. She's a goddamn DEMOCRAT, and don't you forget it.
June 23, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Acck Obama has made his position clear.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/obama_backing_fisa_compromise.php#comments
I would hope Hillary, Dodd & Biden filibuster anyway, but I don't think they can without further embarassing Obama. I am hanging my head in shame right now.
June 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dodd might do it, since he's done it before. But the whole point was to have a gathering of Democratic luminaries. Something that'd show that a vote for the D-ticket this year really is a vote for real, forceful change. Hard to do that without help from our nominee.
June 20, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
He won't do it. No Senate Democrat will filibuster this. Not if they care about winning in November.
June 21, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. They won't fillibuster unless they've gone crazy or just want to pander to the choir but risk losing the middle.
Filibustering a bill with bipartisan support, that is guaranteed to end in a smackdown and victory for the other side, is something only a real idiot would do. Dems filibustering this is a Republican wetdream.
From another post:
June 21, 2008 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn. Someone who gets it. What a fucking revelation.
June 23, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama may say he'll work to oppose retro active immunity, but I doubt he will work too hard at it.
After all, his Democratic party, having AGAIN sold out the American people, and feeling confident that they will soon inherit the White House, give Obama little reason to oppose the immunity.
(Throughly read Obama's comment).
This immunity is about several things; the Democrat party and Democrat congresspersons also take telecom contritubions; and want more in the future;
Democratics, especially Rockerfeller, is and has been a part of the coverup;
Democrats have done nothing but cave-in to Republicans/Bush;
Democrats are protecting Bush;
Democrats and Republicans are just two factions of the same coin, i.e., the business party.
You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
June 20, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
(866) 675-2008 press 6
I've called several times the last couple of days begging, urging, threatening, preaching etc on the importance of this. The last girl I talked to when I said "he can talk to Harry Reid and stop this" and she said "right"
I think it was like "uh-huh" not an official acknowledgment, but she also said that the campaign will be coming out with an official statement soon, and that they had been getting the message how important it is, what a basic constitutional right it is, etc.
I really don't ever pray for things, maybe 4 or 5 per year. That way each one has more power, or something.
I PRAY OBAMA STOPS THIS
that way I can contribute to his campaign, volunteer, etc.
otherwise I may consider moving out of our Fascist Police State.
I was horrified watching CSPAN today, I almost cried I was so angry with Hoyer, Pelosi, and after it passed watching Hoyer and Roy Blount gloat - i wanted to smash my TV
i kept thinking, another day democracy died, the downfall of america before my eyes, officially a fascist state.
why is the dem leadership bringing up anything for a vote that MOST DEMS ARE AGAINST?? what kind of fucking leadership is that, nevermind the trampling of everything sacred and American... Pelosi belongs in jail for taking impeachment off the table preemptive immunity is illegal I learned from Claire McCaskill the other day.
the girl on the phone with me seemed to be empathizing very well with me, we both laughed that it's not a LIBERAL issue, just a basic constitutional one.
it was sad, amazing, and somehow unreal to watch. It was like seeing somebody take out a hit on you, a contract was signed ensuring the death of our fundamental protections under the constitution.
Isn't this law fundamentally unconstitutional by waiving requirements for warrants?? Could we challenge w/ a new Obama supreme court and win a repeal of the law and sue those fuckers to hell?
June 20, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
ditto.
June 20, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has anyone else contacted Obama's office via fax, e-mail, snail mail or carrier pigeon? He tells us to demand full disclosure from our elected representatives about their votes and to communicate with them (in a positive manner) about actions we're concerned about whether it be votes or anything relating to their elected office.
So, I'm faxing his office and hope you all communicate positively with both Obama and your state's US Senators. (Both of my states Senators are Republicans - and I do contact them, but usually they just send back a form letter basically sayiny, 'We're Republicans and don't care about you or what you think!')
If We, The People, do want to change (in this case the FISA travesty) our government's business as usual mode - then we have to take responsibility to do our part.
June 20, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Simply put - Stand up, Speak out - or SHUT UP! Quit blogging and fax, e-mail, etc NOW!
June 20, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Aunt Sam.
Obama made a statement, but the game isn't over. He has a few days to reconsider and he can still lead the good fight.
I'm disappointed right now. But ready and eager to have my mind blown by a huge turnaround.
June 21, 2008 1:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here here! Time for calls, not bitching and moaning amongst ourselves. Thanks for the numbers, destor23.
Folks, there are a number of ways to find contact info for your senators. Here's one of 'em:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
June 21, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to remind Democrats to call or write their Republican senators too. Senators represent the entire state, not just one party in it, and so they need to hear from all of their constituents, not just the like-minded ones. Speak up now, before the vote. Thanks.
June 21, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I called Norm Coleman's office. The person who answered the phone actually laughed at me. Coleman is a piece of shit.
June 21, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Franken's not going to win, is he?
June 21, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Franken's got a tough road ahead of him. Even some of my Democrat friends seem to like Norm Coleman. I don't get it. He sucks. But Minnesotans are weird creatures. The rap against Franken is sort of similar to the "he's not experienced enough" complaint about Obama. Except in Franken's case, it's that he's not serious enough. The guy has a good sense of humor, so that disqualifies him from politics? The other problem is that Jesse Ventura is considering running. If he gets into the race, Coleman wins for sure. I'm really starting to hate Jesse Ventura. He's got that defeatist "our two-party system of government is totally fucked, so I'm your only choice even though I can't possibly win" attitude.
I'd love to see Franken win, but I'm afraid it might be Coleman.
June 21, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good on you.
June 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I call Coleman all the time. I've also given him the finger twice at the Minnesota State Fair and once when I saw him standing on the sidewalk in the Uptown neighborhood. Me and Norm are old buds.
June 21, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha!
June 21, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know we've had our disagreements, readytoblowagasket, but I do believe we've reached a point where we could share a couple of beers. :)
June 23, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Olbermann interviews Bruce Fein on the FISA, terrorism, Congress, and the Fourth Amendment in October 2007. A must-watch.
June 21, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The Constitution is the country."
Interesting how Fein has gone from being universally hated by supporters of the Clintons (he wrote the first article of impeachment against Bill Clinton) to being a hero of the anti-Obama crowd. Whatever works, I guess. If you admire Fein (and I most definitely do) you'll want to see this:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/video_popups/pop_vid_impeachment1-1.html
It's a fascinating interview.
June 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fein believed Clinton committed perjury. I don't have a problem with lawyers wanting the laws of the land to be upheld by everyone, including the president.
I wasn't aware Fein is a hero among the anti-Obama crowd, but I think Fein has flip-flopped on several issues in his lifetime.
I've seen the Moyers interview several times. It captivates me. Thanks. I wish everyone would see it.
You don't seem to espouse something that Fein and Nichols do, however: that impeachment proceedings against Bush/Cheney should begin, regardless, because no president of either party should enter office with the powers that Bush has amassed for himself. If impeachment doesn't proceed, those powers remain with the office.
June 21, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I sincerely believe that the day may be coming when Bush and Cheney are tried in the Hague. That will be one of the great days in my life.
June 23, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Feingold is good in some areas, a little self serving and wacko in others.
He definitely has a Nader streak in him, in both good and bad ways. I agree with most of his goals, but he's not a good leader.
June 21, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love Russ Feingold. He reminds me sometimes of our principled Minnesota Senator, Paul Wellstone. If Wellstone hadn't been killed in a plane crash, he could very well have been the dissenting voice that prevented the invasion of Iraq. Too bad his plane crashed and burned.
June 23, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Testing (please ignore--I'm trying to fix a stupid problem).
June 23, 2008 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink