Musings on Obama and FISA
I was certainly disappointed that Senator Obama did not forcefully oppose the FISA surveillance bill that passed the House yesterday. His lack of action here helps keep a bad bill alive, one which, should it become law, would set the awful precedent of condoning illegal behavior simply because the President asked companies to violate the law. Certainly there is risk that the new surveillance powers, due to the lack of any meaningful judicial oversight in using them, will be abused by the present, and future, administrations. This is a case of codifying that Presidential request is a valid excuse for breaking the law.
Senator Obama has shown outstanding political instincts, however, and it is quite likely that his judgment of the politics here is far better than mine.
1. Vocally denouncing the compromise, which has significant Democratic and virtually unanimous Republican support (only one Republican, Timothy Johnson of Illinois, voted no), would work against his attempts to portray himself as a practical politician who can work across party lines.
2. As Congressman Rush Holt noted, the bill sunsets in four years. Obama may rationalize his tacit support by his belief that he will win in November and will not abuse the power this bill would grant, mostly to him. And if he, as president, doesn't try to renew or extend it, the law will expire quietly, lessening the negative consequences of passage.
3. He has stated (along with Harry Reid) that he will try to get the retroactive immunity pulled from the bill. It's still an open question how hard he would try, or how effective such attempts would be, but the bill has not become law yet, and it may yet be amended further.
4. There's little political gain from opposing it strongly, but larger risk. Those who most strongly oppose FISA are overwhelmingly likely to support Obama for many other reasons. McCain gives unqualified support to the bill, so people voting on this issue have nowhere to turn. Now that the primary is over, Obama is understandably shifting more to the center to try to win independents and moderate Republicans, some of whom might believe this bill is "vital" in our war on terror.
If Obama opposed the bill, it would certainly push the issue of anti-terrorism tactics more to the foreground, and there's also a chance that having a more open, overt debate about that could wind up helping Obama. Undoubtedly it would be a big risk, and with his current strong standing in the polls, it's reasonable to think the risk isn't worth the potential gain. If he were trailing, and seemed likely to lose in November, a risky strategy would be more appealing.
Obama's handling of this reminds me of his handling of the Florida/Michigan revote proposals: had he actively and strongly supoprted revotes, they likely would have happened, and he may well have gained politically from the new elections. But they also risked a large, public defeat that might have sunk his candidacy. When you're leading, don't risk the big mistake.
Retroactive immunity itself isn't what I (and, by projection, I believe without evidence most immunity opponents) care most about. What has me more upset is the disregard for the law shown by the Bush administration: its manipulating intelligence to whip up support for war; its twisted justifications of torture; and its arrogance in asserting it is beyond oversight of any other branch of government. The telecommunications companies who collaborated with the government here were "only following orders", which at least somewhat does mitigate their culpability. If allowing retroactive immunity is the price one has to pay for a more direct, public repudiation of the Bush administration's conduct, I'd take that trade. Winning only on retroactive immunity itself would be like convicting Al Capone for tax evasion: it's better than nothing, but it's not really the point.
So yes, I'm disappointed that Obama didn't strongly oppose this bill. But I can understand why, and his judgment is probably tactically correct here.
Senator Obama has shown outstanding political instincts, however, and it is quite likely that his judgment of the politics here is far better than mine.
1. Vocally denouncing the compromise, which has significant Democratic and virtually unanimous Republican support (only one Republican, Timothy Johnson of Illinois, voted no), would work against his attempts to portray himself as a practical politician who can work across party lines.
2. As Congressman Rush Holt noted, the bill sunsets in four years. Obama may rationalize his tacit support by his belief that he will win in November and will not abuse the power this bill would grant, mostly to him. And if he, as president, doesn't try to renew or extend it, the law will expire quietly, lessening the negative consequences of passage.
3. He has stated (along with Harry Reid) that he will try to get the retroactive immunity pulled from the bill. It's still an open question how hard he would try, or how effective such attempts would be, but the bill has not become law yet, and it may yet be amended further.
4. There's little political gain from opposing it strongly, but larger risk. Those who most strongly oppose FISA are overwhelmingly likely to support Obama for many other reasons. McCain gives unqualified support to the bill, so people voting on this issue have nowhere to turn. Now that the primary is over, Obama is understandably shifting more to the center to try to win independents and moderate Republicans, some of whom might believe this bill is "vital" in our war on terror.
If Obama opposed the bill, it would certainly push the issue of anti-terrorism tactics more to the foreground, and there's also a chance that having a more open, overt debate about that could wind up helping Obama. Undoubtedly it would be a big risk, and with his current strong standing in the polls, it's reasonable to think the risk isn't worth the potential gain. If he were trailing, and seemed likely to lose in November, a risky strategy would be more appealing.
Obama's handling of this reminds me of his handling of the Florida/Michigan revote proposals: had he actively and strongly supoprted revotes, they likely would have happened, and he may well have gained politically from the new elections. But they also risked a large, public defeat that might have sunk his candidacy. When you're leading, don't risk the big mistake.
Retroactive immunity itself isn't what I (and, by projection, I believe without evidence most immunity opponents) care most about. What has me more upset is the disregard for the law shown by the Bush administration: its manipulating intelligence to whip up support for war; its twisted justifications of torture; and its arrogance in asserting it is beyond oversight of any other branch of government. The telecommunications companies who collaborated with the government here were "only following orders", which at least somewhat does mitigate their culpability. If allowing retroactive immunity is the price one has to pay for a more direct, public repudiation of the Bush administration's conduct, I'd take that trade. Winning only on retroactive immunity itself would be like convicting Al Capone for tax evasion: it's better than nothing, but it's not really the point.
So yes, I'm disappointed that Obama didn't strongly oppose this bill. But I can understand why, and his judgment is probably tactically correct here.
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Very intelligent post, Fos. I think that cooler and more rational analysis over the next few days and weeks will find that this decision, while not ideal, does not actually mean that the sky is falling.
June 21, 2008 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's new "seal of the President already in his own mind" is visible at this idiot thinks he's already the President.
The Democrats have almost nominated a certifiable poop-eating loonie!
Hoo ha! Obamabots are the future... of insanity!
Obama is probably walking around with a crown on his head right now!
Kneel, suckers!
June 21, 2008 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
i don't find holding the telecoms' feet to the fire as necessary as the commander in chief's.
June 21, 2008 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Certainly. That's why I'm more upset at this FISA bill, which says telecoms get immunity if they show the President asked them to break the law, than the earlier ones, which just gave them immunity without specifying why.
And, while I doubt anything will come of it, one interesting point of this compromise is that it implies such written evidence of the President himself urging the telecoms to break the law exists. As if one needed more evidence of presidential lawbreaking, subpoenaing such documents would be a start.
And, as I understand the current bill, while the telecoms would need to document that the President approved of their wiretapping, those documents would not enter the public record, and the judge would simply dismiss the suits. So for some reason people are afraid to make these documents public. Anything they're trying to hide might be worth going after...
June 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
i tend to think that if they can prove that the president asked them to do illegal stuff then the president should be the one in court (probably senatorial, not judicial).
June 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for an excellent essay.
I'm a bit torn on this issue as well. I wrote my congressman and senators and asked that they oppose the bill because of its immunity provisions. I think the courts are the best place to decide whether the law was violated, not in the Congress.
I also agree that there are tactical issues in play here. But, I think back to Waldengirl's recent If not now, when? article, though. Remember that many argued that the AUMF wasn't really a vote to invade Iraq, "it was a vote to give Bush a stronger hand at the UN." We know how well that turned out.... It's dangerous to give government sweeping powers and merely hope that those with the power will act with prudence. Checks and balances are always important, and it's not clear to me how strong those are in this bill.
I've been a regular contributor to Obama's campaign, but I'm holding off contributing more until I see how he acts in the Senate on this issue. Perhaps he needs a little more incentive to work harder to be a little less tactical and show a little more leadership.
My $0.02.
June 21, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
If not now, when is indeed a good question. The biggest mistake was Pelosi saying upon election as Speaker that impeachment was "off the table". After the 2006 elections, you probably could have gotten decent public support, and as more unsavory things came out in the proceedings, the administration's support would have likely dropped further. And the threat of impeachment, which the administration clearly fears, was at least a valuable bargaining chip, so it shouldn't have been given away for free.
I've been thinking about when, if ever, the administration might be seriously held accountable, and unfortunately, I'm thinking never. Now is arguably the best remaining time for Congress to try: it's not like a Democratic Congress is going to be able to push through any progressive changes now, and even if they did, they couldn't override a Bush veto. But in 2009, if Obama wins and the Democrats increase their majorities, then time spent on investigations of the old administration would be time not spent on energy policy, health care, etc. Political capital then might be too valuable to use.
Some of Kucinich's articles were excessive, IMO, but most of it was reasonable grounds for impeachment. You are at least hearing Congress members use the "I" word, for example in questioning Scott McClellan yesterday. So perhaps there's slim cause for hope. But I doubt anything will come of it.
June 21, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
The reason for this was simple: There is no chance the Senate, as currently constituted, would vote for a conviction. This renders impeachment only political theater, accomplishing nothing and ultimately handing Bush the cudgel of "They tried to impeach me and failed, I must be right!" Frustrating, yes, and still how it would play out. And I think you know this.
Get the Bush crime family out of office first, then begin some investigations and prosecutions.
June 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
The reason was simple, but you got it wrong. I used to think the same thing until I learned Nancy Pelosi was complicit: She knew about the illegal surveillance. She has admitted this publicly. Therefore, she doesn't want Bush to get into trouble, because she'll be in trouble for allowing him to break the law. Very simple.
Pelosi and others (Harman, Rockefeller, Graham, not to mention Republicans) didn't do their job. Congress is supposed to provide a check on the president's power. If you as a congressperson know the president is abusing power and remain silent, then you're an accomplice.
The trouble with the Obama's stance is that he too is allowing the politicalization of the balance of power in our government, he too is allowing the politicalization of the laws. Which is business as usual in DC.
Meanwhile you just lost your rights.
June 21, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a little hard for me to accept something as morally wrong as this, and as blatantly unconstitutional, based on my faith in the political instincts of the guy that did it.
Then you're asking me to trust that because he's a good guy, when he's president, he won't abuse the authority he's voting to give to the presidency. Well, I do believe he's a good enough guy that he won't abuse his power but you don't protect fundamental rights with faith in an authority figure's character.
Finally, to me the issue of immunity for the telecoms is important and it's not a means to an end. The telecoms broke numerous laws and actually should pay punitive monetary awards to their victims. That's the law. It's not for congress to say otherwise once the laws have already been broken.
June 21, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
June 21, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad I added my qualifier about projecting my beliefs onto other opponents!
Either my post wasn't clear enough, or you didn't read it closely enough, most likely a little of both. I'm not asking anyone to accept anything; I am trying to explain why I think Obama might have taken the position he did, and also why it may well be the better political stance, in terms of helping him get elected.
As to trust, I pointedly said "Obama may rationalize ...", not that I said to trust him directly. Actually I do trust Obama not to abuse such power more than I would trust Bush or McCain, but that's beside the point (and it is an admittedly low standard). Whether you or others choose to trust him here is your own decision.
We agree that the warrantless wiretapping program was wrong, but the wiretapping itself is apparently a larger issue to you than it is to me. That's okay, and I respect your point of view.
There will always be a tension between short-term tactics and long-term goals. And people will disagree over what issues are worth it to stand on principle, even if it has a short term cost, and what to ignore. I actually agree with you that Obama should oppose this, and try to filibuster it (indeed I wrote a post about it yesterday), and I think this might be an issue that he could even turn to his net political advantage. But I can also see where he might decide otherwise.
And also it's possible that he simply wants the added power for himself. As David Brooks reminds us, he is a Chicago pol after all...
June 21, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Leaving Obama completely out of it, why isn't wiretapping a larger issue to you? There's already a law in place that allowed it.
June 21, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's apparently a bigger deal to Destor than to me. That doesn't mean I don't care about it.
But as you note, the 30-year old FISA law allowed wiretapping already - you just had to make an application to a secret court to get your warrant. I vaguely recall seeing statistics saying less than 10 of over 10,000 FISA warrant requests were denied under the old law, so a lot of wiretapping is going to happen in any event. Certainly it should happen with a warrant, as the law requires, but it seems that the warrant approval process is little more than a rubber stamp now anyhow. If most of the illegal wiretapping instances would have been approved by a FISA court had the administration bothered to ask*, then it's hard for me to get too worked up about it.
This is why the bigger issue to me with this bill isn't the immunity per se, it's the justification for granting it. Giving you immunity but not saying why is bad enough. But giving immunity because the President said it was O.K. is worse, IMO, because it codifies the idea that the President's approval justifies what otherwise would be lawbreaking. It sets the president above the law, and that would indeed be a terrible precedent.
Not that the Republic couldn't survive it; it can, and we've survived worse than that. But on the ranking of terrible things the Bush administration has done, warrantless spying ranks below denying habeas corpus to "enemy combatants" (not all of whom actually were picked up "on the field of battle"), torturing detainees, and launching a pre-emptive war that has resulted in the deaths of somewhere between 85,000 and 850,000 Iraqi civilians, created millions of refugees, and cost our armed forces over 4,000 lives.
* Disclaimer: just because the FISA courts have approved virtually all requests in the past is no guarantee they will continue to do so. And the fact that you're required to ask permission itself probably weeds out many more egregious cases from occurring, because people won't even bother to ask. So there is still incremental value in requiring a warrant, even if it approves every request.
June 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is no such thing as "ranking" the breaking of laws. All laws are equal.
I can't even fathom your justifications, as they are so wrong-headed. The law is the law. Rights spelled out in the law are equally protected rights, whether they are the rights of prisoners of war or the rights of American citizens making an innocent phone call. NONE of them should be sacrificed or infringed upon. Laws are written for a reason.
Here's why you should get worked up about the violation of the Fourth Amendment.
June 21, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link. Fein makes a strong argument against expanded surveillance powers, and I certainly do oppose the present bill.
But I do strongly disagree that you can't rank breaking of laws. We may not agree on what the ranking should be, but the differing penalties for breaking laws themselves imply a ranking. Speeding is against the law, as is jaywalking, yet neither are anywhere near as bad as murder.
I'm not at all happy about the fourth amendment violations; all I'm saying is that a person's physical health and well being matter more than whether someone is spying on them legally or not.
So I'd continue to say that I'm more offended by a preemptive war that has wrought far more destruction in Iraq than on us as occupiers (another small peeve of mine: yes, we've lost over 4,000 troops, more than the number of civilians who perished on 9/11, and that is surely tragic. But by even the most conservative estimates, more than 20 times that many Iraqi civilians have been killed since "mission accomplished", which is a greater humanitarian tragedy). I still believe it's worse to torture people, even suspects whom we believe are guilty of plotting terrorist attacks against us, than it is to spy without a warrant.
Certainly the fourth amendment should be respected. Based on what I know of the history of FISA courts, virtually all the applications to wiretap were approved, so arguably many, if not most, or perhaps even all, of the violations would have been perfectly legal had the administration simply requested warrants in the first place.
They failed to do so, and thus should be held accountable (as should the telecoms that enabled the lawbreaking). The idea of giving retroactive immunity for lawbreaking is wrong. Doing so because the President authorized it is worse. And allowing spying on citizens without any effective oversight, as this "compromise" would do is clearly wrong. But personally, I'm more upset torture, holding some innocent people indefinitely without charge, and launching a pre-emptive war that is orders of magnitude more destructive than anything we saw on 9/11 than I am about the warrantless wiretapping program.
June 22, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess where you lose me is with the ranking thing. That's for judges and juries to decide, not us. That's what "a nation of laws" is about.
If you take power away from the judicial branch and give it to the executive branch, as this bill does, then you don't have the checks and balances that were designed into the system to make it work. It affects everything. The president has all the power, the people have none.
What if Obama doesn't get elected?
June 22, 2008 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's an article by Ray McGovern called NSA Spying: What Did Pelosi Know that mentions how Bush's illegal surveillance began 7 months before September 11. This begs the question about the terrorism excuse for the current FISA Amendments.
McGovern also says that Nancy Pelosi knew about the surveillance (ranking Dem on House Intelligence Committee) before it was made public, something Pelosi has admitted publicly. This would mean that Congress abdicated power to the executive branch, which we should be up in arms about. All the more reason to investigate exactly how the law was broken. But if this bill is signed into law, that investigation will never happen. The 40 cases in the pipeline now will be dismissed.
Not to mention the illegal surveillance going on before 9/11 did nothing to protect anyone's health and safety. I'd very strongly urge against throwing away rights as a reaction to White House propaganda and fear-mongering.
Here's another article about the checks and balances issue called The New Surveillance Bill: The Worst of Both Worlds by Aziz Huq:
Hope these articles shed some light on my own extreme reluctance to go down this road. I do hope the bill fails in the Senate, although I'm expecting it to pass.
June 22, 2008 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Neither, I'm afraid. He is an idiot.
Good post.
June 21, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama spoke out on the day of the vote and forcefully two days BEFORE the vote.
If think you and editors of EC have failed to research into his long held view, which might help you feel better about his position if you do indeed support it.
June 21, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
*I*
June 21, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Fos, you're offering us something to hold on to after the devestation of yesterday.
In my letter to Sr. Obama I let him know his magic was taking a huge hit, of course he knows this but, he still needs to hear directly from us about our tremendous disappointment.
I had just sent another fifty before this happened, there will not be anymore for quite some time, told him as much, just had to protest his decision.
He will receive my vote, but about the magic......just don't know.
June 21, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama gets your vote, you can live without his magic. Not something adults should believe in, anyway.
June 22, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink