From Black Sabbath's War Pigs:

Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor"

.... $3,000,000,000,000.00 huh?? Add a little more, and pretty soon we're talking about real money. :)

I agree with you that George Bush has done great evil, but I disagree with you on the remedy. Right now, the most important thing is that we insure that the people who committed these evils do not remain in power. To do that, we have to elect as many democrats as possible to the House and the Senate as well as taking the White House. If we don't do that, the evil won't end. We have to keep the country focused and not provide any distractions right now. It may well be that war crime trials will follow at some point. As you say, many innocents are dead. But if John McCain becomes president, many more will die. At this point, all we could do is make noise. We can't get the most basic laws past the fillibusters of the republicans in the Senate. Impeachment would fail, but it would still eclipse the election and that would not be a good thing. Punishment is less important than creating a remedy. I don't know if George is evil or ignorant. Either way, he has done unbelievable harm, but the best response to that is to make sure that it stops now. And we surely need to pass some laws that insure that it never happens again.

I agree with what you say in your post, and I like the Dylan reference.

All those out there arguing that we can't risk rocking the boat are just making excuses for political convenience. It started with the top Dems; the reasons kept changing until they hit on simple fear-mongering (the republicans will rule forever if we don't let them off the hook) - it worked.

Debase our politics?? How much koolaid do you need to drink to arrive there?

What if we have a choice: 1) Make a big issue of impeachment, create a sympathy movement for the Republicans, and McCain wins, or 2) Focus on one issue and one issue only - electing Obama in November, so Obama wins?

My guess is that most people who read this site would choose the second option. I for one think the above is our choice. I think the disagreement in this thread is one of tactics, not a fundamental ideological disagreement.

Maybe impeachment proceedings against Bush, in addition to being the right thing to do, would actually help Obama, politically? His vote for the proceedings would be another proof of his commitment to "change we can believe in, in Washington" -- particularly when, by that vote, the subtext of his position would be that his own conduct as president will be fair game for evaluation. Because McCain will vote against it, his implied subtext will be that he does not want his own actions to be evaluated too closely.
Good idea? Too risky?

I have a serious question that I hope someone can answer. Is there anything we, as citizens, can do to hold Bush, Cheney, et al, accountable for their crimes?

This has been kicking around in my head because I remember when the Paula Jones case came up and the JD ruled that a citizen could sue a sitting president. I don't remember all the details and I'm not a lawyer, but I am an outraged American. My president, who works for me, lied, broke laws and shredded our Constitution.

Personally, I don't think impeachment is strong enough. I want to see them go to jail. Can some legal expert out there tell me why we can't file a class action suit? What about the families of those who died in an illegal war? Would they have a case?

I can't stomach the thought of George and Dick leaving office and going on with their lives, making money, giving speeches, etc., while we and the next generation have to clean up their mess.

sorry about the double post :)

The only way to keep them from hiding behind Executive Priviledge is through impeachment. They can still hide some things by claiming security concerns, but they wouldn't be able to simply stop people from even showing up to testify.

The only way we will ever know the extent of their crimes is through the process of Impeachment.

That said, it will never happen. Look above for the reasons.

Thanks Constantinople. I'm going with Bystander Trauma.