The Supreme Court Erased 13 words from the Constitution...and nobody seems to care that much.
The Second Amendment reads as follows:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
If, as the court said today, the right to bear arms is an "individual" right, then why did the founders bother with that whole spiel about "A well regulated militia being necessary to the securtiy of a free state?"
Why wouldn't they have just written "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?
If that had been in the constitution, the i would agree with the court's ruling. However, that's not what the amendment says.
Can someone explain this to me. This seems an awful lot like "judicial activism" to me. I mean, the supreme court just erased 13 words from the constitution.


I posted this in a previous thread:
Yes, you can have a gun. Yes, the government can regulate them. No, the government can't ban them.
That's the extent of the 2nd amendment. It's why felons and mentally disturbed people do not get to own guns, and it's why waiting periods are constitutional. The government has every right to regulate who owns the weapons. They just can't out-and-out ban them.
A fair decision by the Court.
June 26, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, unless you are a student at my alma mater, Virginia Tech. There, in spite of a court of law declaring one "a danger to himself and others," a Hokie can still order guns and ammo online, or he can purchase them in stores without any constraints whatsoever. I guess we Hokies are just God's special people. Yeah, sure, that must be it.
Or, maybe the problem is a bit more widespread than that. Maybe, just maybe, any nutjob with half a brain can get a gun in this country. If that is the case, this Supreme Court ruling is nothing more than a rubber stamp of an understatement of a sad sad pre-existing state of affairs.
June 26, 2008 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you are arguing for a blanket prohibition against civilian possession of firearms, taking a single, specific case of system breakdown does not prove your case.
My unscientific experience is that by and large, people who wish to read the Constitution as allowing the government to ban civilian possession of firearms have fired very few rounds, if any, in their lifetime, and are therefore instinctively averse to guns. There are exceptions, of course, and so if you manage to dig up a former Green Beret lifer who now opposes civilian possession of firearms, it won't convince me otherwise.
If the last eight years has taught liberals anything, it ought to be that the means to resist tyranny and governmental lawlessness (no, not by having miniguns and antitank weapons, but by having enough firepower in civilian hands to dissuade the government and its myrmidons from trying to roll over us) is of great value.
If the Jews in Europe had each had a .38 and the will to use it, the Nazis would have had to think of something else. And if American blacks were not armed in the time of Jim Crow, the South would be nearly all white today.
"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
June 26, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the last eight years has taught liberals anything, it ought to be that the means to resist tyranny and governmental lawlessness (no, not by having miniguns and antitank weapons, but by having enough firepower in civilian hands to dissuade the government and its myrmidons from trying to roll over us) is of great value.
We have been 'rolled' over the last eight years Mr. Wigmarx. I never even had a opportunity to waste one lawless 'loyal Bushie' or a single 'myrmidon' with my 32 round extended clip Glock or my 9mm Lugar both of which I keep loaded with safety open in my hand or under my pillow 24 x 7 WigJack.
June 26, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hellllooooooo????? What history book have you been reading?
Blacks who could not exist in the south during Jim Crow migrated north. Uh, killing Mr. Charlie left you hanging like strange fruit from some tree.
June 26, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Black migration to the north did not begin until after WW1. During the period 1870-1920, their guns (and also their economic usefulness, true enough) kept them alive.
"And no wonder, given this longstanding circumstance, that Ida B. Wells, a co-founder of the NAACP and leader in the anti-lynching movement of the turn of the last century, should have remarked, 'The Remington rifle should have a place of honor in every black home.'"
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14329
Do you care to wonder what blacks' fate would have been if the whites knew they had no guns?
June 26, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wigmarx
Two points and two little snippets.
Jade7243 is correct that Black migration began much earlier than WWI. Free Black Union soldiers were part of the migration.
http://www.answers.com/topic/black-migration?nr=1&lsc=true
Second, was it WINCHESTER or Remington that Wells mentioned?
http://functionalculture.blogspot.com/2008/03/ida-b-wells-profiles-in-courage.html
Now the snippets
_In his dissent on the DC gun case, Justice Breyer said the following:
"In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas."
_It is interesting that an African-American male, John White, killed a teenage who was part of a mob of White males who came to the Black man's home in the dark of night threatening to harm the man's son was found guilty of second degree manslaughter. The shooting happened in Riverhead, New York on Long Island in August of 2006. The conviction occurred in December of 20007.
One of the people leading the protest that followed the trial and supporting the right to used armed force for self-defense was Al Sharpton.
June 27, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
From your source:
"The single largest movement of African-Americans occurred during World War I when approximately 500,000 people moved from the rural and small-town South into the cities of the North and the Midwest. The steady migration out of the South lasted until the 1970s; from 1916 through the 1960s, more than 6 million black people made the move."
And how do "free black union soldiers," who got to the South because they invaded the South, get counted as migrating from the South?
And "Winchester v. Remington" is laughably irrelevant. My source, to which I linked, quoted her as saying "Remington." A net search suggests she actually said "Winchester," as you state. But I think this rates a "B.F.D," because a Remington can kill a nightrider just as dead as a Winchester-- either way, she is supporting the idea that black possession of guns helped keep them alive, which was what Jade scoffed at, and I wonder why you care who made the gun.
June 30, 2008 1:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the last eight years has taught liberals anything, it ought to be that the means to resist tyranny and governmental lawlessness (no, not by having miniguns and antitank weapons, but by having enough firepower in civilian hands to dissuade the government and its myrmidons from trying to roll over us) is of great value.
We have been 'rolled' over the last eight years Mr. Wigmarx. I never even had a opportunity to waste one lawless 'loyal Bushie' or a single 'myrmidon' with my 32 round extended clip Glock or my 9mm Lugar both of which I keep loaded with safety open in my hand or under my pillow 24 x 7, how about you Mr. WigJack?
June 26, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two posts. Both marginally coherent, and both pointless. And I thought your "Lugar" would become "Luger" in your second, but I guess you have the Myanmar-made copy, complete with misspelling.
June 26, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was in the military. I fired many, many rounds, threw live grenades, etc., etc. Prior to my short stint in the military I fired 22's and shot guns when I was a youth. I believe that all firearms should be banned, except flintlocks as being necessary for a well regulated militia. If you want strict constructionism, that's strict construction. Also, flintlocks would give the animals that are fleeing from hunters at least a shot at excaping without being killed.
Ownership of firearms do not protect people from crime and in fact is more dangerous than not owning firearms. All the dead children from accidents and stupid parents speaks volumes. Also, the theft and ease with which loons and criminals can get weapons also warrants banning all firearms.
I hate the 4 nazis and the semi-nazi on the supremes. They have so much blood on their hands. I hope they rot in hell.
June 26, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Michael,
Unfortunately, you didn't address the 2nd Amendment anywhere in there. Your personal hatred of guns and your views about gun violence are not a Constitutional argument.
The amendment does affirm the people's right to bear arms. If we limit that to 18th-century technology, should we also limit freedom of the press to the use of an old-fashioned manual letterpress using hand-set type?
I very much believe in restriction and regulation of gun ownership, but I find it hard to square a total ban with the language of the Constitution.
June 27, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was responding to wigmarx comments about people opposed to firearm ownership have fired very few rounds. That was the point.
On your argument point, the purpose of the second amendment is the maintenance of state militias, not personal firearm ownership. Now, if the intellectually dishonest tony wants to be a "strict constructionist," like he professes when its convenient for him, then the ownership should only be flintlocks and I agree that for tony the first amendment would only allow for printing presses. He should be consistent and he is not.
And, yes I do hate fireams. In a modern society weapon ownership is unnecessary and dangerous.
June 27, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
BalRog -
And that's your problem to democratically pass gun regulation in your state to control that. There is a rather subjective definition of what reasonable regulation may entail which to some degree should be decided regionally.
You can't however ban all guns entirely as a flat out measure.
I'm fine with this decision. I wish he had arrived here decades ago, as it basically rules out the zealots on either side of the issue: those who are culturally against all guns and seek to entirely prohibit others from having them on one side, and those on the other who think anybody should be able to have any gun anywhere.
June 26, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
There wasn't a standing army for the USA until after World War II, and this part of the second makes it possible to call up an army (militias) when needed, and that they would be armed and ready.
Standing armies were created at different times for different reasons throughtout our history, but in the early days there was a ddep mistrust of standing armies (and corporations -as extensions of imperilistic armies).
things change
June 26, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Based on the Constitution, this was a correct ruling. If "things change" then the country should change the Constitution through the prescribed amendment process.
It's not up to the Supreme Court to determine if a section of the Constitution is out-dated. They are simply to interpret it as it is written. It's up to the States to change the Constitution.
June 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It bothers me more that the militia has been exported to Iraq.
June 26, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I sure like you!
June 26, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hereby cede my home compound from the Union establish a free state on my yard. Praise the lord and pass the ammo!
Wait what do ya mean it don't work that way?
Well pass the ammo anyway. We'll play militia on the weekends.
June 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
In a week where my congressional representatives, including my candidate for president, have decided that my 4th Amendment rights aren't important, I'll take that the court recognizes my individual right to gun ownership with a hearty thank you.
June 26, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I say we form a militia. Who's in? We'll be well-regulated, and we'll protect the security of the State. We'll all get a bunch of guns, and we'll hold practices and drills. Heck, the government will love us for it.
June 26, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that went over big with the Feds in the 90s!
June 26, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Count my family in.
June 26, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm in! Or, we could just join the Minutemen. Same diff.
June 26, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll bring the beer!
June 27, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe i wasn't clear: the constitution doesn't give you an individual right to own a gun(that is, if you read the amendment as written).
It gives "militias" the right to own guns because organized militia's, not armed individuals, are necessary to the security of a free state.
Thats what the amendment says. How can you possibly read it otherwise? The words are all there.
I mean, can we agree that if it was written in the constitution, there must be a reason for it.
If the founders had intended an "individual" right, they why did they bother with the stuff about militias? It would have been much simpler and easier to say "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
But they made an implicit point to include all that stuff about militias because the amendment was meant to apply to militias, not individuals.
June 26, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The majority opinion and dissent both spend page after page after page making their arguments about the very matter you raise. In the end, I thought Scalia had a passible argument that the right ultimately extends to "the people" and not just "the militia" by noting that if your interpretation is correct why didn't the second clause read, "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." But the dissent also had good arguments. Ultimately I'm just thrilled they appeared to leave the door open for banning machine guns, etc., as well as other regulations that don't go so far as to prohibit someone from having a gun in their home.
June 26, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know this is basically what the case was about. But it seems pretty clear to me that these "strict constitutionalists" aren't really, because if they were, there's no way they would have reached the ruling they did.
Would it be impractical to say there is no individual right? Considering how many gun owners there are in this country, yes it would be.
But the court is supposed to rule on the constitution, not the practicality of enforcing it.
And it feels like they said, hey, we cant get 200 million guns off the street so why even try? Also, dont you think if this had gone the other way, there would be hell to pay and probably a push for an amendment sponsored by the NRA.
I just think politics had more to do with this ruling than the reading of the constitution. And its a disgrace. The supreme court isn't supposed to play politics. But since Bush v Gore, that's allthey've done.
June 26, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I know this is basically what the case was about."
And I know basically what Bose-Einstein condensates are all about, too.
May I suggest you and Jade 7243 actually read the Court's own summary of the decision? It isn't that long.
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ET AL. v. HELLER
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT
No. 07–290. Argued March 18, 2008—Decided June 26, 2008
District of Columbia law bans handgun possession by making it a crime to carry an unregistered firearm and prohibiting the registration of
handguns; provides separately that no person may carry an unlicensed handgun, but authorizes the police chief to issue 1-year licenses;
and requires residents to keep lawfully owned firearms unloaded and dissembled or bound by a trigger lock or similar device.
Respondent Heller, a D. C. special policeman, applied to register a handgun he wished to keep at home, but the District refused. He filed this suit seeking, on Second Amendment grounds, to enjoin the city from enforcing the bar on handgun registration, the licensing requirement
insofar as it prohibits carrying an unlicensed firearm in the home, and the trigger-lock requirement insofar as it prohibits the
use of functional firearms in the home. The District Court dismissed the suit, but the D. C. Circuit reversed, holding that the Second
Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess firearms and that the city’s total ban on handguns, as well as its requirement that
firearms in the home be kept nonfunctional even when necessary for self-defense, violated that right.
Held: 1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
* * *
The “militia” comprised all males physically
capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in
order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress
power to abridge the , so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.
Pp. 22–28.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately
followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms.
Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the
late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather
limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.
[Held:] 2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.
Pp. 54–56.
[Held:] 3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District’s total ban
on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the
lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this
prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional
muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. Because Heller conceded at oral argument
that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy
his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement.
Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64.
478 F. 3d 370, affirmed.
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-2901.pdf
June 26, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I forgot to note, "emphasis [italics] added."
June 26, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Freaktown,
I spent the better part of the afternoon reading the opinion. For those that haven't, I suggest you do since it is compelling reading.
What struck me on the face was the revelation that Scalia (writing for the majority) is hardly an "originalist" or a "strict constructionist". At least if those terms mean that you interpret a text literally, or in a historically contextual way.
Scalia begins the opinion by stating: "in interpreting this text, we are guided by the principle that the Constitution was written to be understood by the voters; its words and phrases were used in their normal and ordinary as distinguished from technical meaning." He then proceeds to do just the opposite.
Justice Scalia broadens what we would conventionally understand the meaning of the phrase "free state" to include the general polity rather than well, a state. Being that he's a so-called "strict constructionist" this seems a little out of character. He then proceeds to narrowly define "the people" to allow for the exclusion of those who are deemed by the state as being unfit to own firearms. Justice Stevens points out how discordant this interpretation is when compared to other times when the phrase "the people" is used in the Constitution and other contemporaneous documents, meaning, well, the people--everyone--regardless of mental health status, or felony records, etc.
Overall, I'm not at all convinced by the majorities ruling. I think the minority-- ironically enough considered the liberal wing of the court--had a more conservative, narrow view of the amendment and its application.
I do think the D.C. ban is excessive, but I don't think creating an individual right to bear arms in the second amendment is the right mechanism was the appropriate way of remedying the situation.
This decision will have ramifications for years to come. Roughly 70 years of jurisprudence on this issue coming from the Miller case will have to be revisited. Gun laws across the nation now face court challenges. It was a bad decision.
June 27, 2008 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
It says you have the right to keep and bear arms and that the importance of a well regulated militia is why they want you to have that right. But that doesn't mean that you don't have the right in the absence of such a militia. They give you the right and then a rationale for doing so. You still get the right even if the rationale is wrong or absent. The militia part is simply an elaboration.
Anyway, for now the debate us over and I do have an individual right. That means I can shoot my wiretapped telephone!
June 26, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
really?
then why don't they give a rationale for the first amendment? it doesnt say, "the free exchange of ideas is critical to the survival of a free state, therefore congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech."
it just says "congress shall make no law..."
why is this "rationale" only restricted to the 2nd amendment? why did they feel the need to give one for arms, but not speech?
June 26, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't tell you. Why doesn't it say: "For the express and sole purpose of serving in a well regulated militia, the people shall have the right to keep and bear arms."
I say that whenever there's ambiguity in the Constitution that you should err on the side of more individual freedoms rather than less.
June 26, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
i would agree except when its clear that the founders intended otherwise. and i think its clear by just reading it that they did intend otherwise.
the supreme court disagreed with me.
so america losses.
I just wonder how many people will actually die as a result of this ruling. because you know people will. its not like the "restoration" of habeus where scalia just wanted to scare people. this ruling will actually kill people.
god bless america.
it's in the "general welfare" of america to make sure its citizens can kill each other with minimal interference from the government.
June 26, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I truly think they intended it to be for individuals:
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press." - Thomas Jefferson
I reckon we could go round and round in this way. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate you and your posts.
June 26, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, more people will have guns and that means more people will die form them. I can't deny it. But I have a funny relationship with guns. I grew up with them. Never saw them as a problem. Just objects used to shoot targets. I'm fine with gun regulations. But I don't think I'd be fine with the government outlawing all the legitimate target shooting.
June 26, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
My take.
First, there were no such thing as standing militia's. The concept was the government could not infringe upon the individual right to own and bare arms so as to hinder the formation of a militia. The issue of whether we still need militias has never been brought before the Court or addressed in Congress. So unless you address the militia issue and remove it the right to keep and bear arms is sacrosanct.
June 26, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because back in those days, you could bare arms without sunblock or worring about UV.
(Sorry. Given that homonyms are my downfall, I couldn't resist.)
June 26, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I think jsfox basically has it down. It used to be that the militias worked when Paul Revere ran around yelling, "Hey militia people! Come on out and bring your guns!!" It wasn't about a professional military or anything like that. It was a volunteer group of amateurs bringing their own weapons to the fight. So the Constitution basically said, look, the people have to be able to keep guns because the volunteer amateur militia is so important.
Of course, things don't work like that anymore, so it's a real question as to why this still matters.
June 26, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Paul Revere does kinda predate the 2nd Amendment by a bit, but I agree with the spirit of your message.
June 26, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look, here's the elephant in the room that both sides dance around and ignore. There's at least a strong argument that what was in the Founders' heads was the preservation of the people's ability to launch an armed Revolution against this big powerful, potentially overweening, new federal government they were setting up. Lexington and Concord were still recent history.
That's certainly what the militia fringenutter movement of the 90s was about and it was not a view devoid of historical support.
The problem is that if you couple the right to bear arms with "the militia" (which, in those days, meant all the military age white men in a jurisdiction), you are almost inevitably led down a road that leads to a personal right to own and bear military grade small arms. And an implicit right to engage in armed revolution.
June 26, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank You, the second amendment has nothing to do with quail hunting or target practice but rather for the citizenry to be able to resist and oppressive government.
James Madison:
"Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops."
This is why they did not want to allow the government to make laws impinging on the citizens right to bear arms, or arm bears - whatever.
The deed is done, due to technology and our bizarre obsession with some notion that they're coming for our vermin rifles, the government has effectively disarmed the population. Thanks Bitter Hunters.
June 26, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a dilemma, but the people who like this kind of fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV74rbgIsr8
Are apparently not too concerned about this, which is not so fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHQqW8zOSk&feature=related
June 26, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with the first responder.
1. Individuals are permitted to own firearms.
2. The government can regulate gun ownership.
3. The government cannot issue a blanket ban on gun ownership. It can restrict ownership for certain groups (criminals, mentally deficient individuals, minors, etc.)
Makes perfect sense. Ifyou want to discourage gun use, makes the penalties for the commission of ANY crime involving a gun draconian. THIS would be a more effective method of making gun use less attractive.
June 26, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forget the "draconian penalties" deterrent. In most states the penalties for armed vs. unarmed robbery, armed vs. unarmed assault, armed vs. unarmed burglary are drastically different.
Actually I'm with Chris Rock on this one, "We don't need gun control; we need bullet control." Personally I think the federal government should just tax the hell out of ammunition. Start with a 300% tax on bullets and go up from there.
June 26, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I think Eddie Izzard was first to suggest we target the ammunition - but I'm with you on that point as well! :)
June 26, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
put simply, the inmates are in charge of the SCOTUS asylum.
June 26, 2008 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink