tpm pravda
(this post was submitted for the tpmc record. it's not intended nor offered for recommendation; advance apologies for any failure to respond)
briefly: steve clemons posted a piece titled "Obama's Economic Soul?."
in sequence: a) i commented, b) clemons revised my comment, c) i replied by questioning the previously unknown (to me) ability of tpmc authors to "edit/censor/redact" user comments, d) clemons sent 2 emails to my registered tpmc email account confirming his revision, admitting discomfort with -- presumably -- a passage in my original response which he subsequently deleted, expressing his intent to restore the response in its original form, e) the entire topic/post was removed, f) the topic/post was restored with all user commentary intact.
i had reasons to post the discomfiting passage (based on prior content) which are irrelevant here and now.
clemons is not the point.
more pointedly with respect to rights and interests of any tpmc user: are all tpmc authors allowed to edit user comments? are tpmc authors permitted to edit user comments that otherwise comply with tpm terms of use? why was this privilege granted to non-tpm staff absent any (obvious) safeguards for potential author abuse? how often is this privilege invoked and why aren't redacted comments flagged to apprise users that their content/comment was edited?
briefly: steve clemons posted a piece titled "Obama's Economic Soul?."
in sequence: a) i commented, b) clemons revised my comment, c) i replied by questioning the previously unknown (to me) ability of tpmc authors to "edit/censor/redact" user comments, d) clemons sent 2 emails to my registered tpmc email account confirming his revision, admitting discomfort with -- presumably -- a passage in my original response which he subsequently deleted, expressing his intent to restore the response in its original form, e) the entire topic/post was removed, f) the topic/post was restored with all user commentary intact.
i had reasons to post the discomfiting passage (based on prior content) which are irrelevant here and now.
clemons is not the point.
more pointedly with respect to rights and interests of any tpmc user: are all tpmc authors allowed to edit user comments? are tpmc authors permitted to edit user comments that otherwise comply with tpm terms of use? why was this privilege granted to non-tpm staff absent any (obvious) safeguards for potential author abuse? how often is this privilege invoked and why aren't redacted comments flagged to apprise users that their content/comment was edited?
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What? Did this really happen? I mean, it's weird because Clemons rarely, if ever, wades into the comments or answers them. Why would he want to edit the comments, even if he has the power to do so?
Please post your emails with Clemons.
June 9, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
destor23 --- I read the comments when I get a chance. If there are any of yours I have not answered, please zap me a note. I would appreciate my private emails not being posted. I like Morsus Mihi's comments generally -- even when taking me on -- and thought that his response to me on the economists around Obama was quite good. There was an item that disclosed personal info about me that I didn't want up and which I thought was inappropriate. When he was not pleased with the correction, I restored his post -- but removed my post until the link that he was using was cleaned up. I don't want to discuss my personal issues here or on any blog.
In any case, I hope my privacy is respected -- and I appreciate MM's concern about censorship. My personal info though is that -- personal, for reasons. Thanks -- and again -- email me if I can answer any questions or complaints about things I might have missed before.
June 9, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Steve. Didn't mean anything as a criticism, by the way. I enjoy reading and responding to your posts. Was just unclear as to what had gone on here.
June 9, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
No worries at all. Seriously though, if I missed some other item I should have responded to, always feel free to send me a note.
I just responded to your item about Obama as globalist on the other page dealing with Obama's economic policy staff -- but I failed to hit reply to you -- so it's just down at the bottom of the page.
Hope you find it of interest. best, steve
June 9, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve's restored the comment, he was just uncomfortable with some personal info that was posted but now all is sorted. Generally speaking, we don't allow Cafe bloggers to edit or unpublish comments and are glad in this case that wasn't necessary in the end, but if private info is posted that doesn't apply to the content of the post we do reserve the right to pull it.
June 9, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as you're here, a humble request. Can you also inform your boss that contributors are empowered to and have deleted entire threads with comments? He seems to be under the impression that it has never happened.
Some of us long time users know that's not true.
Don't get me wrong, I am quite mindful that is that this isn't my site, and I have much sympathy that contributors posting under their own name might have concerns about certain content and want to delete something once in a great while, but heym CAN THEY COME OUT AND HONESTLY SAY THEY ARE DOING IT, and explain like Steve just did?
With M.J. Rosenberg, it is sometimes like the twilight zone, things just disappear... you left a comment, you thought,A reply to someone else, check back for more comments, but all of a sudden there's no post. Did you imagine it all? What the heck was the title again?....you go to your user list, aha, there's ghostly traces, dead links on a comments list.
It's awful creepy when someone doesn't admit to it, even when people ask on the next thread, much less give a reason, just deletes a whole thread with comments already on it without saying anything. Like a little kid hiding a broken dish from Mom. I don't see how one would think that will help their reputation in the end. It certainly doesn't help it with me, I certainly would not take anything such a person says as transparent or truthful.
And I am fully behind any moderation that anyone would want to do on any site. But hey, back when I was a moderator, when we deleted comments, we left the text "comment deleted by moderator" behind, as is done on many sites. Anyone with sense should know full well that simple disappearance would cause more trouble and cost more time in the end.
June 10, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
link code didn't work above,
trying again: HERE
June 10, 2008 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
There was an item that disclosed personal info about me that I didn't want up and which I thought was inappropriate.
dear steve,
re the comment passage in question, i posted a public link to your public bio at wiki.
near as i can tell, your wiki bio does not materially differ from your new america bio -- also public -- relative to the passage removed.
if you have problems with the biographical information presented or privacy concerns regarding public access to the same, you should contact wiki and new america posthaste.
as to "appropriateness," you "clearly" (in your own words) demeaned by comparison the relative import and credibility[1] of a "noted economist". you also, recently, asserted familiarity with certain methodologies or aspects to undergraduate/postgraduate curricula.
re the latter, i simply questioned the basis of those assertions and politely asked if your bio was incomplete. absent your response, i assumed -- in the former -- it was not.
next, your emailed claim that "all blogs have
the right to censor and/or modify the responses to their posts -- including TPM Café of which I'm a founding writer/member" is unsupported by tpm terms of use.
with all due respect, a "founding member/writer" does not a tpm employee make.
[1] clemons: "[I]t's clear that Furman is no Dean Baker or Robert Blecker or Jared Bernstein -- all important economists who have been far more right as of late ..."
June 9, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
hmmm.
the original url referenced in the following paragraph now returns a "403 forbidden" error stating "You don't have permission to access /2008/05/19/looking_for_the_next_mr_x/ on this server...". i've replaced it with a google cache url linked to the original post, which was titled "Looking for the Next "Mr. X".
however, again and for the record, should the google cache link expire or disappear, the (singular) comment in response to "Looking for the Next "Mr. X" is reproduced in its entirety below.
please delete this reply if/when/once access to the original url is restored. thank you.
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I very much like this report and its methodology
what "methodology?"
We need the kind of exercise these students were engaged in to proliferate through our college system
do we? in what sense? how did you determine its absence?
While this kind of work is probably standard at the graduate level, I'm not familiar with many undergraduate courses that engage in this kind of strategic think work
"probably." is familiarity implied? because i'm unable to confirm scholarship beyond sixth form. (is your bio incomplete?
Posted by morsus mihi
May 19, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
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June 10, 2008 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I stand corrected. I look forward to further debates/discussion with you on policy matters.
best regards,
Steve Clemons
June 9, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
So from what you say, Steve Clemons, and possiblly all contributors, are empowered to see our registration emails?
I'm not sure if I like that.
I know it's common for that to be the case for those with special permissions on this kind of software, like moderators or editors or staff or regular posters. And one have to trust on that.
But you also have a lot of occasional contributors here, and I can think of a few that have not all have left under the happiest of circumstances, and they all have been empowered to see our email addresses?
June 10, 2008 1:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
So from what you say, Steve Clemons, and possiblly all contributors, are empowered to see our registration emails?
i can only speak to clemons & this particular incident because it surprised me as well.
speaking for tpm, golis says (above): "Generally speaking, we don't allow Cafe bloggers to edit or unpublish comments."
however, after twice urging patience for the current iteration of tpmc -- bugs and all -- it's somewhat vexing to learn contribtors are fully capable of editing user comments when users are still unable to edit their own.
June 10, 2008 2:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just want to thank you for taking the time to make a post about your experience at the risk of being labeled a "whiner." :-) I don't think of it as whining, I think of it as people understanding the systems they are using, which in my experience makes good things happen.
June 10, 2008 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink