WHEN IT CAME TO NATIONAL SECURITY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN COMPLETE FUCK UPS. SEE FOR YOURSELVES.
-
Democratic Presidents forced Germany into unconditional surrender twice, and the Japanese Empire also to surrender unconditionally.
What is the war record of Republican Presidents. Take a look.
Korea: Republican President Eisenhower settled for a stalemate that has kept our troops pinned down there for the past fifty years.
Vietnam: Republican President Ford fled from the roof tops in a complete "Cut And Run".
Beirut: Republican President Reagan got hundreds of marines blown to smithereens, and then "Cut and Ran" all the way to Grenada, where he staged a wag the dog distraction from his complete surrender to the terrorists in Beirut. Don't hold your breath until there is a huge demand for a war monument to celebrate the Republicans great victory in Grenada, the toy poodle that Reagan claimed had roared.
Republican President Reagan traded arms for hostages with the Iranian Ayatollahs, and lied to the American People about having done so.I know; some of you are going to mention Blackhawk down. Take a look at who actually send in the Troops to Somalia. Bush One, and he did so after he had already lost his bid for a second term.
Republican President George Herbert Walker Bush, had his ambassador, April Glasby, tell Saddam Hussein that America had no vital interest in Kuwait, as Iraq had it's forces massed for invasion on the Kuwait border. She is on video actually giving Saddam the green light to attack Kuwait. What else does saying "America has no vital interests" mean.
Then, after Margret Thatcher had to give Bush a spinal transplant, and tell him: "George this is not the time for you to go all wobbly over Iraq's aggression", he did something about it. Of course he then talked the Shiites into rebelling, promising them their liberation, and instead stood by, and allowed Saddam to slaughter those that he had urged to rebel. He then left Saddam in power to continue to persecute and slaughter his own people.
Well, you know the final chapter with Republican President George W. Bush, who took a bad situation in Iraq, and made it a hundred times worse, and managed to allow a ragtag bunch of religious fanatics to make the world's greatest military power look powerless and impotent. Of course Bush also did what Iran hoped he would do, and actually created the conditions that let Iran emerge as the strongest power in the region
Any one who thinks, with the long history of Republican Presidents getting our nation's military humiliated, that the Republicans are actually strong on National Defense has to be a complete Moron.
I've lately thought about the Iran Hostage Crisis. I was young then, too young to understand all the trails, but smart enough to realize the fear and manipulation.
During the crisis Carter was in the hotseat. It practically destroyed him. Personally, no matter the politics. In the end, it was mostly he and his Presidency that negotiated the release.
But the Iatollah (sp?) made a point of not releasing the hostages until Reagan was officially the President. Within minutes of the inauguration. To insure that history would show that James Carter was not the President when the hostage crisis ended and the prisoners released.
A Republican got the credit.
A Democrat was humiliated. And it was the Democrat who did the work, and shed the tears.
June 24, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The negotiations were going nowhere pretty much the whole time. It's why Carter authorized the rescue mission that failed. They hated Carter with a passion for his support of the Shah.
Reagan never got the credit. It was long known that they were releasing them on Reagan's inauguration day to humiliate Carter.
That had to be a tough day of mixed emotions for Jimmah.
June 25, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's been pretty heavily speculated (and generally accepted, I've always thought) that former CIA director GHW Bush, as part of Reagan's campaign team, scuttled the Iran parliament's expected vote to release the hostages thru a deal with the ayatollah. Old CIA hands such as Bush were kicked out by carter, and several may have been seeking their revenge, as well as a chance to swing the elecation. In exchange for arms from the future Reagan Admin, the ayatollah agreed to hold the hostages until after the election.
"The Iranian parliament was meeting and we had every information from Bani-Sadr and others that they were going to vote overwhelmingly to let the hostages go. And at the last minute on Sunday [two days before the election] for some reason they had adjourned without voting.... The votes were there, but the Ayatollah or somebody commanded them to adjourn."
--President Carter, interviewed in The Village Voice
June 25, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
(isn't this a repost?)
two objections.
i'm willing to hand rwr and/or ghwb a victory in the cold war.
i'm really not sure if a "CiC's party vs. outcome of conflict" comparison is the best measuring stick for the presidents with respect to national security. for instance, the outcome in korea can be blamed in part on macarthur, and in part because of the fact that a military megabase on mainland East Asia was perceived to be in the national interest through the Cold War. valuable real estate for U.S. power projection.
recommended nonetheless. it is definitely an interesting trend, but perhaps not worthy of an all caps title..
June 24, 2008 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as the Republicans keep on claiming that they are strong on security and Democrats are weak, then I am going to keep countering it, with the details of their actual record.
The Republicans always attack Democrats where the are the strongest, and always claim that Republicans are strong where they are actually much weaker.
I am just posting their real history on national security as opposed to what they keep claiming.
The Republicans will keep claiming from now until November that they are stronger on National Security, so why should I only post the evidence that refutes their lies, only once. I am going to keep on repeat it, as long as they keep on claiming that they are strong on national defense.
You can not just refute their Daily Big Lie just once.
I intend to soon post the historical evidence that also shows that Republican Presidents have also being complete fuck ups, when it came to providing good paying jobs for the working class.
Stay tuned. It will also be in all caps.
June 25, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
know what would be awesome? If Obama did the same. Thats what I expected him to do. Which is why going back on his word re: FISA, and even claiming now that its "necessary" is so disgusting. If you can write this up, then Obama surly has the ability to make the argument publicly, and then prove it with his actions.
June 25, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
June 25, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Harry Truman was a Democratic President. He was the one who created NATO, and the Marshall Plan. That is what won the cold war. Ronald Reagan just happened to be in office when Truman's plan came to fruition. Ronald Reagan did not win a damn thing. In fact, he let the terrorists scare him out of Beirut, and he traded Missiles for Hostages with the Iranian Ayatollahs.
June 25, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't agree. Truman's policies exacerbated the Cold War. If you listen to any interviews of the Russian leaders from the 80's you'd hear them admit that Reagan essentially out-spent them. In an attempt to keep up with our advances in technology it broke the Soviet economy. Gorbachev realized they couldn't keep up, thus his implementation of Perestroika and the calls for summits with Reagan in his second term.
June 25, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
i'm willing to hand rwr and/or ghwb a victory in the cold war.
SPOR you'd earn yourself a punch in the face from any Eastern European for that. Lech Welesa had more to do with the downfall of the Soviet Union than Reagan or Bush 1 did. The USSR didn't fall apart because of the arms race. It fell apart because their people no longer believed their shitty economic system and paranoid one party government was ever going to deliver on it's promises and they were tired of living like peasants under constant surveillance while it was obvious their cousins in the West weren't.
June 25, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is a link to what happened in Hungary in 1956
When Republican President Eisenhower was in office.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB76/
Eisenhower did not lift a finger to help the Hungarians consolidate their revolution against the Soviet Union, and just stood idly by as the Soviets tanks poured into and crushed the Hungarian freedom fighters.
June 25, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
sheesh. liam says "they black, we white." twice.
i say "hey, there might be some gray there."
and i get a punch in the face from the eastern europeans.
conceded that Truman created NATO and Marshall created the Marshall plan, which Truman implemented.
i'm still willing to let RWR and GHWB share in the Cold War victory.
every president who didn't lead us into nuclear war in the Cold War gets to share in that victory.
June 25, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, SPQR;
When the Chicken Hawk Neo-Cons stop lying about the actual superior War and Peace records of Democratic Presidents, I will then grant those crumbs to their past Presidents. Regardless; the record is clear. Democratic Presidents have a far better record on War and Peace issues than Republican Presidents, so take it up with those Republican Turdblossoms who are the one lying to the voters.
June 25, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
no complaints. remember, i recommended your post.
June 25, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Weeeee! Reagan didn't kill us all! That's setting the bar pretty damn low isn't it? I repeat once again Reagan and Bush 1 didn't win the Cold War. The people of the USSR and Eastern Europe decided they'd had enough of being conned by incompetent totalitarians who scared them into living in poverty and sacrificing their civil liberties over boogeymen. It's about time you stopped buying Republican spin and do the same.
June 25, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
why don't you refute RobbyLove's comment?
chill out dude.
i'll believe whatever i want, and i'll not let you tell me how i should apportion merit for the cold war victory.
it's not like i'm here to refute liam. i already conceded his main point. he and i are getting along fine, and this is his thread.
June 25, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you want to go back to beginning Republican national security hysteria started long before the Cold War. In the late 1930s and early 1940s they were the party of isolationism. They passed the Neutrality Acts in the late 30s to keep FDR from assisting our European allies maintain a balance of power. Jerry Ford was a peacenik who signed petitions and advocated for the Act in 1939 at Yale. Charles Lindbergh got a medal from the Nazis for being such a good friend to Germany. They fought the Lend Lease program until it was too late for most of Europe and almost too late for Great Britain.
Pearl Harbor was their Waterloo. The attack not only united the nation to go to war it made Republicans distrusted on national security issues for a decade. After the war they desperately needed to change the country's perception that they were weak on defense.
So like the latent homosexual homophobe who can't accept his sexuality many of them became shrill about the communist menace. Their party bred Nixon, Goldwater and McArthy. Except for Ike they constantly went overboard, seeing communists around every corner and making radical threats. Reagan and then Dubya took up the mantle, goaded by the likes of Rumsfeld, Cheney and the former Dem Wolfowitz who found a home in the Republican party.
They are petty fools who don't understand the costs, benefits and responsibilities of military power. We should do everything we can to make the American people understand the pants wetting hysterical fear that drives them. And make sure their like never again rise to positions of power in this country.
June 25, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink