Is Jesus pleased?
As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I support same-sex marriages.
Even though I don't understand homosexuals, I support their rights as human beings. God created them, just as he did everyone else, but he endowed them with different feelings of attraction and intimacy.
All humans, regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation, deserve the same protection and rights under the law.
Married heterosexual couples are protected in issues of joint ownership, government or workplace benefits, and making life and death decisions for a spouse, and it is discriminatory to judge a person unworthy of these same rights simply because of who they are.
Being different should never be the core issue when determining if someone is worthy of being treated as an equal child of God. Jesus taught us to love one another, to bear one another's burdens, to visit the sick, the poor and the fatherless. Never has he charged us to reject anyone.
When we tell someone they are unworthy of the same human rights and protections we enjoy simply because they live and act differently than we do, I wonder if Jesus is pleased with how we are handling this issue.
Carlyle Potter
St. George, Utah
By Permission
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Excellent post. Rec'd.
And in my humble opinion, I don't believe he is 'pleased'. Quite the opposite.
July 25, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
REC'D
I agree with Aunt Sam.
July 25, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the recs and comments.
My hope is that Jennifer Kerns, or Jeff Flint, or Frank Schubert might notice this letter from a Mormon father who wrote it because he wants to do right by the son he loves.
And I only mention Jennifer, Jeff and Frank because if they won't notice, at least Google will, and I'm damn close to getting Google to rank my "Schubert Flint" diaries above their own lame website.
Check intrade on Prop 8. It's toast. Got about as much chance as McCain when it comes to winning in California. All I'm doing now is celebrating the humanity of it all.
July 25, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not a Christian, but I used to have conversations with Jesus - in my mind of course - and wrote them down. It was a little like automatic writing, as I tried my best not to impose my own thoughts on the process but just let the words flow out of me. Okay, that might sound weird, but it was a very interesting exercise.
Anyway, my imaginary Jesus was quite displeased and, had he been real and had I been inspired by some divine mission, would have compelled me to publish his thoughts to help rectify the outrageous failure of people in this world to understand and live up to his message.
However, being only a humble non-Christian Buddhist-leaning agnostic, I never felt the call to publish my imaginary Jesus' communiques with me.
Still, Chino, I think I can safely say that even the real Jesus would be quite disturbed at what has happened in his name and that of so many other isms.
Me, I my favorite spiritual sayings are the Golden Rule and Row, Row, Row Your Boat.
So it goes.
July 25, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thich Nhat Hahnh suggests that the Golden Rule is far from the ideal "love thy neighbor" philosophy. If I am a masochist, should I treat my neighbor as I would like to be treated?
A better rule would be far more passive, he says. Do not treat others the way you would not like to be treated yourself.
Food for thought. Tasty, too.
July 25, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Presumably you want to be treated with respect as a morally autonomous being. That is, you want recognition that you deserve to be treated as an end and not as a means to an end. Therefore, you should treat others with this same respect. The Golden Rule shouldn't be interpreted at a superficial level (e.g., I like ice cream so I'll give ice cream to everyone) but at a more profound level in which we accord others the respect would would accorded to ourselves.
July 25, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Similarly, Thich's Rule and justification is far richer and more complex than the fingernail clipping represention I gave it.
For example, a hermetic life of contemplation and simple survival is a thoroughly moral way to live. This sort of existence would satisfy Thich's Rule but not necessarily the traditional interpretation of the Golden Rule.
July 26, 2008 6:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like this Thich's rule. It's a logical dual, IMO, of the Golden rule, but that makes it no less profound for its perspective.
July 26, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
See, you don't have to be a Christian
to have a Higher Power in your head,
methinks we all do.
Like you demonstrated, IF we but quiet
ourselves and listen, we can get
the right answers.
Having done automatic writing, one day
frustrated with my drawing, I let my
hand go to see if it would draw...and
it did! Full complete pictures of
ladies, that I had no preconceived
idea of, came out. I was shocked and
delighted.
Thanks for your comment 99, and thanks for
your sensible post Chino Blanco. Of
course A-L-L are deserving of equal
protection under the law.
July 25, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course A-L-L are deserving of equal
protection under the law.
Except Notre Dame fans.
July 25, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus is too busy right now making one team or the other win in football, or the Olympics, or other such things that people pray for and credit Jesus when they win. He is too busy granting good weather for someone's wedding day, or letting someone's child survive an illness or injury --
I guess that would mean he was soooooooooooooooo busy with your requests that all those other children died, and it rained on someone else's wedding.
Jesus was too busy listening the the gazillions of prayers for fertility, money, a relief from debt to save those who are shot to death in Darfur, Iraq, Afghanistan, and who-knows where else....
OK...
I guess I am making the point that Jesus is not who anyone should be looking towards or asking favors from. Please! Just do what you truly believe is right, and take credit yourself if you honestly believe you did the right thing.
Oh, and if the sun shines on your wedding day -- you were lucky! If your kid survives a terrible accident, you probably had good medical care, good luck, and a strong kid to boot!
But don't be arrogant enough to claim that Jesus has nothing more important to do than to make a decision about what is right and wrong when you have the tools to do that within you; or that he would stop a thunderstorm for a wedding but would let a holocaust go on and on and on....
What Would Jesus Do?
No! What Should You Do?
July 25, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is a guru I like who writes it is all blessings and curses-- there is nothing else.
July 25, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Prop. 8 backers take fight to kindergarten
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/25/BA5511V2DO.DTL
The fearmongering and fabrications are coming out of theYes on 8 campaign thick and fast now.
July 26, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them ...
Josiah Greene over at the California Majority Report calls out the Yes on 8 campaign for their kindergarten lies:
http://www.camajorityreport.com/index.php?module=articles&func=display&aid=3275&ptid=9
July 26, 2008 4:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do I take this to mean that you have a similar problem with the idea of teaching children that gay marriage and straight marriage are equivalent? Do you agree that gay marriage should be somehow disparaged in comparison to straight marriage?
It would seem that the proper response to the kindergarten klaim should be "Yeah? So? And?"
July 26, 2008 6:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
The only problem I have is with the attempt by the Yes on 8 campaign to suggest that Prop 8's defeat would result in age-inappropriate school lessons. I think it's possible to object to their attempt to conjure up an image of five-year-olds getting schooled on marriage without buying into their disparagement of gay marriage.
"Yeah? So? And?" works for me (as long as it's understood that opponents of Prop 8 aren't looking to teach students about marriage any earlier than they're being taught now, which I understand is usually in high school).
Another argument I've made is that, considering how gay marriage is already a reality in other states and countries, it's going to get taught (or at the very least discussed) one way or the other, with or without Prop 8. What the Yes on 8 folks seem to be saying is that gay marriage is something that can be wished away by not speaking of it.
July 26, 2008 7:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Considering that there is a finite chance that one or more of the kids in any given kindergarten class may have two Mommies or two Daddies, it's not out of the question that the issue might easily arise W/ORT to sexual practice.
The concept of marriage is well established in the minds of 5-year-olds. It would seem more than appropriate to promote kids' understanding that Heather's m/m or f/f parents' marriage has the same validity as Justin's m/f parents.
July 26, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Title and Summary Change for Proposition 8
http://laist.com/2008/07/25/gay_marriage_ban_proposition_langua.php
http://boifromtroy.com/?p=7394
Here's what Prop 8 is now going to look like on the ballot:
ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY.
INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
Changes California Constitution to eliminate right of same-sex couples to marry. Provides that only a marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. Fiscal Impact: Over the next few years, potential revenue loss, mainly sales taxes, totaling in the several tens of millions of dollars, to state and local governments. In the long run, likely little fiscal impact to state and local governments.
July 26, 2008 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/23/2413
July 26, 2008 2:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I s'pose I should take a break from spamming my own post and thank the folks up top for dropping by and bringing your anecdotes, insights and uplift. Hope everyone's havin' a fab weekend. I gotta say, poolside WiFi is way too cool.
July 26, 2008 3:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
LAPD Chief Bratton Donates Money to Help Gay Marriage
http://laist.com/2008/07/23/lapd_cheif_bratton_donates_money_to.php
July 26, 2008 4:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mormons believe in marriage "for all eternity" (LDS Temple marriages are believed to extend beyond death and can involve more than one wife in the hereafter).
It's this belief that makes this recent letter to the Salt Lake Tribune so friggin' hilarious:
July 26, 2008 5:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please excuse my ignorance - but does polygamy extend to women having multiple husbands?
July 26, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would be polyandry, and as I understand it, yes but not the way you mean it. This topic seems to be a sore spot among Moromons.
It seems that early Mormon leaders sometimes rather coerced their male followers to give up desirable wives to effectively become polygnous wives for the leaders while retaining their existing marriages.
July 26, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
To expand on Tankard's response a little: technically, polygamy refers to both polygyny (multiple wives) and polyandry (multiple husbands), but often people use polygamy exclusively for the more common practice of polygyny, and polyandry for the more rare form.
July 26, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've heard they have a nasty habit of running off the young men so that they won't have any competition. What a bunch of sleazy pigs!
July 27, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Denying people human rights enjoyed by other in the name or morality IS Immoral!!!
CVille Dem
they are called "lost boys" and there are many. Sleazy pigs is way too nice.
July 29, 2008 6:11 AM | Reply | Permalink