Wow. This post appears with four recs, even before it has received a single comment. I think it's destined for the top of the charts.

This one has been beaten to death for all that it is worth. It will help the McCain campaign about as much as the lefts facination with McCains Czecholsolvakia gaffe. (meaning it will actualy hurt their cause)

One must understand that the GOP's 'precondition' for talks with iran about it's nuclear program is that it discontinues it's nuclear program.

Billy, are you collecting McCain troll points now?

Billy: AP did not call Obama out, as you put it.
It is only the McCain campaign -- echoed here by you --that is alleging a flip-flop.
And you're both wrong.
Obama never "promised" a summit meeting with anybody.
He gave a straight answer to a primary debate question, then fleshed it out for reporters after critics jumped on it.
The elaboration he gave then was precisely the same as what he said today.
No flip-flop has occurred, period.

This is just getting sad. Poor Billy.

IMHO - yes, but most of them "try" to remain impartial observers. What I do not "get" is the McCain whining about the media - if they did cover him more it would be revealed that he is:

it was Homer Simpsons' Dad

here is the link

http://www.rdubphoto.com/12345.jpg

Why are Republican Leaders so afraid to talk to leaders of other nations; doesn't that make them come across as a bunch of nervous cowards who are afraid they will be outsmarted. I guess I can understand their reluctance since Putin completely outfoxed Shrub, and Janus McCain would get lost looking for an imaginary meeting place in an imaginary land.

The Republican Negotiations Motto:

Don't talk to them, those guys are smarter than us.

Where are all the comparison polls that show how every other nationality, other than Jews, rank Obama in their homelands compared to their American communities.

Why does Israel get to be the tail that wags the American Election Dog, but all other nations, great and small, better not interfere.

OK, time to give the people of Armenia, and their American communities, equal time and influence on our elections. Show the polling results from all nationalities, A to Z.

If that sounds like too much work, and smacks of too much foreign influence in our elections, then take the easy way out, just don't do it for any of them, including the foreign land of Israel.

You just were not listening to what he was saying, or you heard what you wanted to hear.

Gail Collins from the NY Times wrote a very insightful column on the subject recently. She laid out how some people who are now claiming that they are upset because Obama has switched positions, just heard what they wanted to hear, instead of what Obama way saying all along.

Here is her column.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html?pagewanted=print

Excerpt: Use the link to read the entire article.

July 10, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
The Audacity of Listening
By GAIL COLLINS

We have to have a talk about Barack Obama.

I know, I know. You’re upset. You think the guy you fell in love with last spring is spending the summer flip-flopping his way to the right. Drifting to the center. Going all moderate on you. So you’re withholding the love. Also possibly the money.

I feel your pain. I just don’t know what candidate you’re talking about.

Think back. Why, exactly, did you prefer Obama over Hillary Clinton in the first place? Their policies were almost identical — except his health care proposal was more conservative. You liked Barack because you thought he could get us past the old brain-dead politics, right? He talked — and talked and talked — about how there were going to be no more red states and blue states, how he was going to bring Americans together, including Republicans and Democrats.

Exactly where did everybody think this gathering was going to take place? Left field?

When an extremely intelligent politician tells you over and over and over that he is tired of the take-no-prisoners politics of the last several decades, that he is going to get things done and build a “new consensus,” he is trying to explain that he is all about compromise. Even if he says it in that great Baracky way.

Here’s a helpful story: Once upon a time, there was a woman searching for a guy who was ready to commit. One day, she met an attractive young man.

“My name is Chuck,” he said, grinning an infectious grin. “I’m planning to devote my entire life to saving endangered wildlife in the Antarctic. In five weeks I leave for the South Pole, where I will live alone in a tent, trying to convince the penguins that I am part of their flock. In the meantime, would you like to go out?”

“I have just met the man I’m going to marry,” she told her friends. She had been betrayed by poor listening skills, which skipped right over the South Pole and the tent. Of course, after five weeks of heavy dating, Chuck flew away and was never heard from again.

Who was it that said: Obliterate them. Did that person renounce that chilling war mongering remark.

Who was it that said: hard working white Americans. Did that person renounce that racist shout out.

Who was it that said John McCain has crossed the commander in Chief threshold. Did that Lieberman like Republican enabler renounce that remark, which was made several times.

Looks like Bully Boy, and his faithful Remora, are only concerned by clarifications from one person.

They were never Democrats. They just though Hillary would be the easiest one to defeat. Having failed in that mission, of course they are now doing their best to help War Monger McCain.

Mind numbing debate. Does anyone really care about what Obama said he was going to do or what he will do regarding Iran? Anything will be better than what we have now. Glad's interest culture is just a front for his deep seated dislike for Obama.

Bully Boy is promoting John McCain. he is no longer hiding that fact.

McCain has adopted all of George W. Bush's economic, social, and foreign policy positions, and has decided to put them on a heavy regime of steroids. He wants to make sure that struggling billionaires get more tax breaks.

McCain hates the troops. He just sees them as cannon fodder. When it came time to do the right thing, and vote for the new veterans benefits, he voted against it, and explained that he did not want to encourage the troops into thinking that they could have a future outside of remaining as cannon fodder to be blown to smithereens in the Bush/McCain Iraq follies.

Bully Boy wants you all to obey his ground rules, and only find flaws in Senator Obama.

You do not need to waste your time on that. If, like Bully Boy, and his faithful Remora, War Monger McCain is your cup of tea, then drink it.

If you are sick of the Bush McCain era then vote for Obama. Pointing out that Senator Obama is a fallible politician does not make Janus Whiney McCain a good alternative.

Bully Boy never examines that fetid body for ticks, do you notice that.

I almost went and read all of these comments, but then I thought to myself, "why?"

I don't even get the point of this post other than to pretend there's an issue when there's not. What, did you think that based on his comment last year he would travel to Iran on coach and have lunch with Ahmadinejad at the airport anytime he got a phone call?

He's willing to meet with Iran before they make any changes. I'm sure some conditions will have to be met like:
1. I need to fit you in my calendar
2. I won't meet you in Iran
3. You can't try to kill me while we're hanging out, so your team will need to be searched
4. I prefer italian coffee, so make sure you bring some
5. We'll need three cigarette breaks every four hours

What he's NOT asking for before the sit down is:
1. Stop your nuclear program
2. Stop influencing progress in Iraq
3. Stop funding Hezbollah
4. Become a democracy
5. Give us cheap oil
6. Tell the world that you love Israel

That's what he meant last year, and that's what he means now.

So..... Has morale improved sufficiently in here? Or will the beatings continue?

Honest to God. I said it yesterday. Every bloody day, you show up at High Noon, lookin' for something to shoot. And every day, some one shows up. Hell, more than one.

Anyway. As long as a good time was had by all. Carry on friends.

Billy Glad...poor little man still here? Still going onto dem sites and holding the bucket for Bush/Rove and McSame while they take leaks? and then your caught wiffing up the smell?
You claim you don't have an opinion in this election and aren't supporting either candidate then proceed to shove McCain down our throat by bashing Obama. Having some racist feelings of anger that the black man is whipping some white unethical man's tail? I mean come on! McSame leaves his crippled wife and kids for a rich woman 20 years younger who steals drugs from a children's charity...you want facts little man? I have tons of them regarding Johnny Boy and his lack of leadership. Compared to him? Obama is a breath if fresh air.

Want more Billy Boy?
Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act
This law helped specify US policy toward the Congo, and states that the US should work with other donor nations to increase international contributions to the African nation.
The bill marked the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor. Following this legislation's passage, Obama toured Africa, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. He spoke forcefully against ethnic rivalries and political corruption in Kenya.
Honest Leadership and Open Government Act
In the first month of the 110th Congress, Obama worked with Sen. Russ Feingold to pass this law, which amends and strengthens the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995.
Specificially, the changes made by Obama and Feingold requires public disclosure of lobbying activity and funding, places more restrictions on gifts for members of Congress and their staff, and provides for mandatory disclosure of earmarks in expenditure bills.
The House passed the bill, 411-8, on July 31. The Senate approved it, 83-14, on Aug. 2. At the time, Obama called it "the most sweeping ethics reform since Watergate."
Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act
Following the Republican-sponsored voter intimidation tactics seen in mostly black counties in Maryland during the 2006 midterm elections, Obama worked with Sen. Chuck Schumer to introduce this bill.
The bill has been referred to the United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary. Obama said of the bill, "This legislation would ensure that for the first time, these incidents are fully investigated and that those found guilty are punished."
The Obama-McCain Climate Change Reduction Bill
The Obama-McCain bill, which is co-sponsored by Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., would cut emissions by two-thirds by 2050.
Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007
Introduced by Obama, this binding act would stop the planned troop increase of 21,500 in Iraq, and would also begin a phased redeployment of troops from Iraq with the goal of removing all combat forces by March 31, 2008.
Explaining the bill, Obama said it reflects his view that the problems in Iraq do not have a military solution. "Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war," Obama said.
Amendments to the 2008 Defense Authorization Bill
Obama worked with Sen. Kit Bond to limit, through this bill, the Pentagon’s use of personality disorder discharges in the FY 2008 Defense Authorization bill.
This provision would add additional safeguards to discharge procedures and require a thorough review by the Government Accountability Office. This followed news reports that the Pentagon inappropriately used these procedures to discharge service members with service-connected psychological injuries.
"With thousands of American service members suffering day in and day out from the less visible wounds of war, reports that the Pentagon has improperly diagnosed and discharged service members with personality disorders are deeply disturbing," said Senator Obama. "This provision will add additional safeguards to the Department of Defense’s use of this discharge and mandate a comprehensive review of these policies."
The Comprehensive Nuclear Threat Reduction provision
Working with Sen. Hagel and Rep. Adam Schiff, Obama authored this provision, which would require the president to develop a comprehensive plan for ensuring that all nuclear weapons and weapons-usable material at vulnerable sites around the world are secure by 2012 from the threats that terrorists have shown they can pose.
A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
Bookmark this, follow the links, share with friends. Wash, rinse, repeat. Always repeat.

Picked this up from another site that lists"
JOHNNY BOY MCCAINS 99 WORSE MOMENTS:
99. Bush's willingness to talk directly with Iran.
98. Bush's new time "horizon" for troop withdrawals.
97. al-Maliki's endorsement of Obama's Iraq strategy.
96. Obama's headline-dominating foreign tour.
95. His disagreement with the majority of Americans on Iraq.
94. His lack of economic expertise and policy.
93. Obama's $52M June.
92. His $21M June.
91. 29% of the Latino vote.
90. 2% of the black vote.
89. Charles Keating (he'll be back).
88. Vicki Iseman (she'll be back).
87. Randy Scheunemann (he'll be leaving).
86. His band-aid approach to energy (more drilling, more nuclear, a $300M "prize").
85. His band-aid approach to healthcare (tax credits, more competition).
84. His band-aid.
83. Saying things like "I know how to win wars," despite his never having won a war.
82. His wife.
81. His ex-wife.
80. The Hagee/Parsley un-endorsement debacle.
79. An uninspired base.
78. Ape rape.
77. His bff, Joe Lieberman.
76. His claim that Czechoslovakia still exists (it doesn't).
75. His claim that Iran is training Al-Qaeda (they aren't).
74. His claim that Iraq and Pakistan share a border (they don't).
73. His claim that Somalia is the same place as Sudan (it isn't).
72. His claim that Vladimir Putin is the president of Germany (he isn't).
71. 71.
70. The images of 70,000+ screaming Democrats at Invesco Field.
69. Phil Gramm's "nation of whiners" implosion.
68. His unwillingness to call the situation in Afghanistan "urgent."
67. Steve Schmidt's failure to right the ship.
66. A new generation of Evangelicals who don't care what James Dobson thinks.
65. "C-nt."
64. "I hate the gooks."
63. His plan to resurrect Bush's plan to privatize Social Security.
62. The writer's rooms of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report.
61. His tarmac birthday party with Bush -- as Katrina made landfall.
60. "General Petraeus goes out there almost every day in an unarmed Humvee."
59. His belief that Americans are better off than they were eight years ago.
58. His "Frankenstein on barbiturates" oratory skill.
57. His beyond-pathetic "Pump" ad, which blames Obama for $4.50 gas.
56. His "Obama Love" ad, which blames the MSM for his terribly-run campaign.
55. His computer illiteracy (c'mon...this is 2008).
54. A tax plan that doesn't even TRY to hide the fact that it's geared toward the wealthy.
53. Bob Barr.
52. Ron Paul.
51. Rupert Murdoch.
50. His gay adoption/marriage high wire acts.
49. His immigration high wire act.
48. His torture high wire act.
47. His drilling high wire act.
46. His tax cuts high wire act.
45. Not churchgoing enough for some evangelicals.
44. Too evangelical for some independents.
43. His temper.
42. "I know what [Iraqis] want."
41. The starlet gap: McCain = Heidi Montag; Obama = Scarlett Johansson.
40. The Facebook gap: McCain = 173K supporters; Obama = 1.17M supporters.
39. His 1983-94 opposition to the Rev. Martin Luther King holiday.
38. His 2008 opposition to the Ledbetter Fair Pay [for women] Act.
37. His 2008 opposition to the G.I. Bill.
36. "100 years."
35. Viagra-gate.
34. His 0% rating from Planned Parenthood.
33. His 0% attendance record for the last six Senate Afghanistan hearings.
32. "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno."
31. David Plouffe.
30. David Axelrod.
29. Republicans losing elections in traditional GOP strongholds.
28. His October 2002 insistence that victory in Iraq would be "easy."
27. His January 2007 insistence that he never said it would be "easy."
26. A resurgent Taliban.
25. Europe's Obamamania.
24. Kneeling at the feet of Jerry Falwell.
23. His penchant for gaffes.
22. 80% of Americans convinced we're on the wrong track.
21. The National Review calling his campaign strategy "likely to fail."
20. Another terrorist attack on U.S. soil "would be a big advantage to him."
19. Record turnout in the Democratic primaries.
18. A free Osama bin Laden.
17. "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."
16. A campaign hierarchy dominated by lobbyists.
15. Suggesting Obama is a "Socialist."
14. The Dow Jones down 2,000 points for the year.
13. Foreclosures soaring, banks failing, and inflation at a 17-year high.
12. Still pushing his ridiculous, Big Oil-friendly gas tax holiday.
11. Being out-raised by Obama 2:1...in West Virginia.
10. His "no" vote on SCHIP (healthcare for poor children) reauthorization.
9. His support for overturning Roe v. Wade.
8. His consistent opposition to minimum wage increases.
7. Obama's 50-state strategy.
6. Al.
5. Bill.
4. Hillary.
3. Mitt.
2. John McCain.
1. George W. Bush.

Did anyone on this ridiculous thread ever finally mention the fact that Obama clearly stated during the primaries that he would talk with the "bad" leaders, but that his idea of preparation included talks between more low-level officials before he would talk with the big dudes themselves?

In other words, that's not preconditions, but it is also not just sitting down with anyone, at any time. I don't think anything that Mr. Glad and his various alter-egos had to say here really refuted Obama's original position or showed him flipping. However, it's clear also that Mr. Glad also likes to inflate small distinctions into major issues.

Mr. Glad may believe that Obama will have to get a recognition of Israel's right to exist from Ahmenajad before meeting with him or risk alienating Israel and American Jews. For all I know, he may be right, but if that turns out to be the case, for political reasons if Obama has to alter his position, then he does so as an intelligent politician. The job isn't to please nitpickers, but to bring peace to the world by whatever means we can. Dealing with issues in the Middle East will require quite a balancing act, if it's even possible, a good deal of diplomacy, some muscle, probably, and a lot more understanding of the region than any of the Republicans have shown.

Nobody in his or her right mind would stick to something they said during a campaign just because they said it and they were afraid that Billy Glad would turn into Billy Mad if they changed their approach. Only Bush and his ilk are incapable of changing direction according to circumstances. A real leader - the kind we need - is going to recognize the need to be pragmatic, or to adjust strategy according to the situation, and they will have to do so, despite the likelihood that they will be criticized for it. But, hopefully, they will have a good reason for doing what they do, and they will communicate that reason clearly.

Personally, I find these pointless and contentious discussions distasteful, but I was stuck traveling with time to kill and suffered through most of this discussion on my Blackberry, which for some reason doesn't allow me to post. By the time I got back where I could actually post, I thought it would be at least helpful to set a part of the record straight about what Obama did, in fact, say during the primaries, and how it's not substantively different from what Mr. Glad posted and claimed was a major flip. So it's a non-issue to me, and another phony cause célèbre to Mr. Glad.

This post has about thirty seconds of typing and insight holding it up.

I thought TPM folk were smarter than this.

I mean, look at Billy's responses. He's getting off on this. Put on your clothes people, and go home.

And this post is recommended.... why exactly?

No politician should be allowed to get away with "explaining" away the fact that he said one thing to get nominated and another to get elected, especially when the security of our allies in the Middle East is at stake.
If you have "dropped out" why do you care about the security of our allies in the Middle East?

J.M. Keynes:

When the facts change , I change my mind. What do you do ,sir?"

If you're reading this post and not watching television, turn on the television. The scene in Berlin is amazing.