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Bubba Is Getting It Wrong


"I'm not a racist, " he says, almost conspiratorially to a journalist. 

Oh Bill - stop the whining.  I never - not even for an instant - thought Bill Clinton was a racist.  Not Hillary, either.  What I *did* think was that they know many Americans still are - so they were willing to use race in order to win the primary. 

To me, that's quite different.  It makes them unethical, cunning and power hungry, not racist.  If Bill is going to feel insulted, he should at least understand what we're insulting him for.


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That's a fairy tale. I bet you never cried for Katrina.

See the thing about it is there are ARCHIVES on TPM (at least for the reader posts not Election Central which was much worse). Plenty of people called the Clintons racists. You can't undo the accusations made then and pretend they didn't happen.

Well, when you bathe in slime, you get dirty! Truthseeker parses a narrow distinction, one valid enough; but Hillary's conduct during the parimary showed that once a Goldwater bigot, always a Goldwater bigot.As for her two-faced husband, his record speaks for itself.

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Oh bullshit.

The President of your party has to state he is not a racist.

Disgusting.

Do not count on the Clintons to help the one after being labeled racists.

Geraldine Ferraro is posting at TPM again I see.

Hackneyed expressions:

You're a racist.
You're an anti-semite.
You're a sexist.

Do read a fascinating book called "The Race Card," by Stanford University professor Richard Thompson Ford, who posits that Americans naively like to think we live in a world of "racism without racists."

That somehow, in America, far too many people believe, wrongly, that racism thrives without the necessary human element to make it grow. That's why it is so easy to claim "I'm not a racist," in the face of compelling evidence to the contrary. That Americans have created this "bogeyman racist" who looks a certain way, dresses a certain way, says certain things, lives in a certain placem and so if you do not look like your "bogeyman," you are not the bad guy or girl, you are not a racist.

But racism doesn't exist in a vacuum and doesn't exist without a human assist, and those who protest they are not, most likely are.

Mr, Clinton may not believe he is a racist, or that he played the "race card," but more enlightened minds know that he is and did.

and those who protest they are not, most likely are

So are you a racist?

I don't doubt that the book you mention is an interesting read, but it sounds as if the author (and a few posters here) may be painting with too broad a brush.

I've seen very little evidence to suggest that Bill Clinton thinks his race is superior to any other or that Obama was a lesser candidate because of his darker skin. What I think I've seen in the Clintons is opportunism. They work the angles as they see them. To them, winning however you can trumps losing on principle. But that there is politicking in a nutshell.

What Bill said in the interview was irrelevant, stupid, immature and a sign of still-bruised feelings. But a sign of concealed racism? Nah... not quite. Not for me, anyway.

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I've seen this comment made before, that the Clintons are "opportunists", who want to win at any cost, and it always came from the wingnuts, the RNC and the press who said the same exact things about Gore.

What makes them "opportunistic"? Why should they not want to win?

What makes them "opportunistic"?

The same thing that makes Obama, you, or me opportunistic. If the prize is truly worth winning, when we see an opening, we strike. I think you're seeing this as a bad thing because the republicans you mentioned have used it negatively. I don't share that view.

Why should they not want to win?

Exactly.

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Wow. It's just too bad that this is the Internet. It would be great if we could all just sit at your feet and learn from your enlightened mind. Arrogant much?

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"More enlightened minds?"

Sheesh, Jade.

Self-aggrandize much?

who cares what Bill Clinton thinks. Half the country couldn't stand him before this primary, now another quarter can't stand him after it. That makes just about 75% of the electorate. Go away already.

American society is highly racialized, which isn't the same thing as "racist", in the common Aermican vernacular (which is not to say that a fair number of Americans aren't "racist").

As a foreign-born American, I find that the very idea of race, as a useful social construct and an informational entity (wrong term, most likely. What I want to say is that most American believe that person's "race" carries useful information content for human interaction), is powerfully ingrained in most native-born Americans from childhood.

This societal racialization rides below the more crude from or race-based emotional response, such as racism. It, however, powerfully informs the way American society views itself and functions - i.e. it forms the very gestalt of America at an important, personal level.

As someone who wasn't looped into this racialization from an early age, I think I was able to observe this dynamic from a more detached perspective. I have concluded, after thinking about this for a while, that the social concept of "race" has stopped carrying useful information for human interaction. In mathematical terms, standard deviation in race-based distributions has become considerably greater than the differences in the means, making them inadequate parameters of differential. If person's race ever told one anything about a person, it certainly doesn't do so today.

Race-based parameters are no longer relevant in the way most Americans habitually use them. This isn't meant to sidestep ethical/moral considerations of racialization, but rather a more factual look at the information. There is always more than one way to get at the truth.

However, most Americans continue accept race-based distinction as inimical to the human condition and interaction. This phenomenon is so ingrained on the American psyche, that it almost impossible to people to even identify it. That's why Clinton, having done a very natural (for America) race-based distinction, is outraged that this may have been interpreted as crudely "racist". He is right - by American standards, he is not "racist", but more and more thinking people see racialization as the problem - something that is obviously new to Bill.

Native-born American's relationship to race is a very glaring, and frankly, weird, thing if you weren't born here.

P.S. I would challenge those adhering to the importance of the construct of "race" to define it in a compact form that isn't self-referential or redundant.

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I'm not sure what you are saying. race plays a great role in the whether one gets a call back after a job interview or even after a phone call asking for a job interview.

The type of medical care that one receives for cancer and heart disease is determined by race (not economically) determined. The Institute of Medicine has an educational website addressing physician bias in an attempt to counteract this disparity.

A recent article in the Archives of Internal Medicine demonstrated that physicians caring for White and African-American diabetic patients gave better care to the White patients.

Data on the current subprime loan crisis indicates that African-Americans who qualified for low risk loans were more likely to be shunted to subprime loans than Whites with similar finances. The Baltimore Sun pointed out last year that Black men and women received worse loans than equally situated Whites. Black women were far more likely to get a bad loan than even Black men.

Keeping the above race-based data in mind is important. As I have said before, being race-based keeps me healthy, wealthy and wise.

Do I think that physicians and loan officers as a whole are racists in the classic sense? No. But the reality is African-Americans are still viewed as "other" in the United States. That perception may mean that physicians and loan officers may not spend as much time going through all the details with African-Americans.

Is Bill Clinton a racist? Is John McCain a racist? Was Barry Goldwater a racist? I am reminded of MLK's words regarding Barry Goldwater. King said that Goldwater's words gave comfort to the racists.

Clinton is a Southern politician and aggressive campaigner. McCain is a Republican who saw his chances in South Carolina go down in flames in 200 partially because of a race-baiting campaign by GW Bush implying that McCain had a Black child.
Neither Bill Clinton or John McCain like to lose. if Clinton and McCain feel the need to appeal to groups of people who are racially biased, they will proceed full steam ahead.

We are not yet post-racial

You are correct, of course.

There is fair amount of plain old racism, of course.

What I was trying to say, is that person's race tells you very little ABOUT a person. It can tell you how that person is likely to be treated by others, which is of some importance. But that information is secondary and reflective, if you will. There is very little original informational content in race today.

Conflation of the two is a facet of racialism. Native-borns do not keep these things separate, attaching original informational content to race.

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Oh nonsense. Europeans are the most racist people in the world and Russia leads the pack. Anytime the government and the people can focus their anger and their perceived lack of control over events, they look for the people who are different and manifest that hate in them. What do you think the holocaust was all about, or the genocide of the Ukhranians, or the recent race riots in France, or the genocide in Serbia, or the persecution of the Armenians, or the race riots in London?

Governments encourage it, they don't want the people to ask why things are the way they are and they really don't want people to focus their attentions on the government and hold them accountable. Governments want people to have internal enemies as well as external enemies.

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My sense is that most left-leaning analysts don't want to go near President Clinton's silly and ridiculous outburst that he's not a racist (by the way I was skewered by Clinton dead-enders at Talk Left this week for suggesting that Clinton didn't have to say what he said when he said it--I'm an equal opportunity contrarian). That's why, for example, I submit that Josh Marshall didn't touch Bill Clinton's unnecessary, dumb but purposely timed comments. Most Democrats trying to win in November live in fear of reopening the wounds of the spring, and Josh learned an important lesson (I hope) last week, and that is that the General Election is not the Democratic nomination fight.

But the Cafe is not made up of the clumsy creative class that hurt Senator Obama last week by crying wolf, er I mean racism. The poster's clumsy but valiant effort to parse a distinction between using race and being racist is commendable but meaningless in the real world. Respectfully to Dimitry, his 22nd foreign-born American explanation about American racism is still utterly incomprehensible to most boobus Americani like yours truly (doesn't mean he's not correct; I just don't what he's talking about). And then you have the Jades of the world who live to trash the Clintons and to tell people that if you disagree with her you must be racist. And she has the book titles to prove it, etc.

The Party is in a quandary because of the charges levied at the Clintons this past spring. It is a gaping and festering wound. The most astute of the captive creative class know they made a boo boo last week and are behaving better right now and trying to steer the discussion back to energy and what is important to real Americans who don't hang at places like the Cafe (like the price of milk which is not sold separately at the Cafe and is only use to enhance the latte experience). But, as this post suggests, there still might be some untimely rehashing of the racism debate in the coming weeks. And most people who understand how politics work also understand that this will be a horrible thing for Senator Obama.

I suggest people learn as well as I believe Josh Marshall did last week, and cease and desist from allegations of racism or using race (unless it's really there and really necessary to condemn someone about it). People are hurting economically. Real people; not those of us who post for kicks. But if it's more important for people to spend time attempting to justify the attacks of racism (or using race -- hee) on the Clintons, hey go for it, and reap what you sow. There are many loyal Clinton supporters who are probably itching for that fight, and they are just as dumb or dumber than some of the geniuses from the creative class who wrote with flourish about racism in the McCain camp last week.

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P.S. I don't question for a minute that Senator McCain and/or some his supporters will "play the race card". The issue is what should be done in response. At the threshold, the attacks of racism on the Clintons in the spring make it more difficult for Obama to respond now, and if folks didn't notice that reality last week, then stay tuned.

But my principal point is simple. There is a domestic crisis in this country. People cannot afford basics, like gasoline. Winter is coming, and fuel oil heats homes. The way to win the election is to become one with the American people. Senator Obama needs to roll up his sleeves and earn this thing by getting the American people to trust him and to believe that he is truly qualified to be president. Senator Obama is a brilliant man and he has run, for the most part a, flawless campaign. I will vote for him without hesitation, and I will do so proudly for a number of reasons, including because Obama's victory will show that this country is willing to be led by an African American.

But Senator Obama is owed nothing; he must continue to work and sweat to win this election. Some folks might think it's not fair to expect Senator Obama to look beyond slights with a racist tinge, and they might be right. Big deal. Remember one thing--Senator Obama is running for president. It's not a fair fight, a presidential campaign, but a president is someone who must constantly face situations that just aren't fair. I only take solace in believing that what I am saying is consistent with what the principal decisionmakers in the Obama campaign know to be true.

But, hey, if folks want to take Bill Clinton's petty bait, then be my guest. Just hope that the MSM doesn't take the bait as well, and be thankful that the creative class of bloggers ignored President Clinton's selfish outburst.

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Well, if you really want to hurt someone go after them for something they take pride in - for the Clintons it's their fight against racism. It was the equivilant of attacking Kerry on his service record - it was a pretty damned hurtful thing that people who the Clintons championed, raised money for, supported, introduced to the network, then turned on them and pretended they were racists.

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I might remind you that one of the groups who provided a strong base of support for William Jefferson Clinton during impeachment was African-Americans.

Clinton was given the title "first Black President".

Clinton owes the African-American community, not vice versa.

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I didn't say that Clinton was owed anything by anyone nor does Clinton owe anything to anyone. I gave an explanation as to why this was so hurtful to the Clintons.

We're all racist in one respect or another and so is Bill! I don't think you can excuse someone from being a racist, because they are only playing the race card strategically. From the side of the recipient, the pain is the same. In fact, (as Bill would say) you can argue that someone who knows the difference and is still willing to use race for divisive purposes, is even more of a scoundrel.

Oh Jesus, Buddha and Zoroaster. A pox on both your houses.

It is no possible for anyone to "win" this argument. No one is every going to change the minds of anyone on the other side. No useful purpose is achieved or achievable by going over this dispute over and over and over again.

You're like the fingers of a five year old picking at a scab. If you stop, it will heal. If you don't, it'll get infected, which may kill us.

And I don't care who started it. Just stop.

Dear Truth_Seeker:

You are not an idiot.

You are just saying idiotic things.

Which, according to you, is not the same. Whatever, anything to make you feel better about it.

But if you were really seeking truth, you would admit that all Obama supporters share the same primal instinct - defensive, pre-emptive parsing of anyone's words, magnifying any potential danger or slight and then crying wolf through a megaphone.

It's a defense tactic, there is nothing wrong with it and I understand that it's difficult to use it sensibly and responsibly against an opponent whose husband is the most successful Democrat in recent history.

Yes, maybe Bill Clinton should have known by then that only the potentially explosive words he had used would be reported and not all the other ones.

Maybe he should have figured out by then that there is nothing racist when 90% of AA voters back an AA candidate - it's only racist to point it out.

Any perceived slight, however small and however intended, will be punished as capital murder.

So the truth is that the Obama camp went into a frenzy and over-reacted in a way that was so hysterical, myopical and short-sighted, that not only it has now blown up in your own candidate's face last week and open him up to "Race Card" charges, but also caused a major rift within the party at the worst possible time.

I guess Bill Clinton insists he's not a racist because he thinks that typically it's idiots who say idiotic things?

Is it not Senator Clinton, who has cried "misogyny" throughout the campaign?

Is it not Senator Clinton, who has knowinly, though hesitatingly used the words "hard working Americans...white Americans" to describe those who have voted for her, and according to her, would not vote for Obama in the GE?

One doesn't need to do much parsing there - a desperate turn toward clear and obvious racism toward the end of the campaign.

Her words speak for herself. It is a stain on the Clinton's record.

Yes - it makes him MORE of a scoundrel. Correct indeed. *Intent* matters.

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