McBushSame: Won the debate - from CNN and MSNBC
As I suspected, the media are for McBushSame
From Cnn:
Cindy Crowley: McBushSame won the crowd
From MSNBC:
Shuster, Bernard, Buchanan:
The best McBushSame ever!!!
I do hope that the Obama surrogates will show up!
From Cnn:
Cindy Crowley: McBushSame won the crowd
From MSNBC:
Shuster, Bernard, Buchanan:
The best McBushSame ever!!!
I do hope that the Obama surrogates will show up!
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I meant to say Candy Crowley...
August 16, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's easy to win the crowd when you've got home field advantage.
It wasn't a debate per se either.
August 16, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems clear that McCain knew and had prepared answers for all his questions. He was not asked anything confrontational. And I am sickened by the constant attempt by political leaders and the mnedia to declare our country a 'christian nation'. Our country was founded on religious freedom and I am no christian. I accept the right of all americans to believe differently than I do and I demand the same right for myself. I have no problem with people asking questions of leaders related to their beliefs but all politicians need to be respectful of our right to freedom of religion. John McCain declaring us to be a judeo christian nation was the most appalling and disturbing comment of the evening for me.
The possibility of McCain as president is just terrifying.
August 16, 2008 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
While I don't want to think any of this was at all "rigged", I also have NEVER seen McCain as well prepared and quick with his answers. McCain has been barely coherent on the stump. On that question about merit pay for teachers, McCain didn't even let half the question be asked before he snapping off a super succinct answer. WTF?
August 17, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't you want to believe he knew the questions? Is it because it is a choice between "a man of gad" and your lying eyes? How about when McCain asked if it was time to talk about the Supreme Court yet?
If that wasn't a tell, what was it?
August 17, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you Jonze, it makes so angry that the media have been bought for McBushSame, and that they got away with it...
August 16, 2008 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ibrilliante: I also agree with you that separation of church and state does not exist in the US.
August 16, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama gave real, substantive answers, McCain gave fluff. I think the talking heads will wish they didn't give it to McCain so quickly as it takes awhile for the folksy goo to wear off.
Obama gave smart, specific answers to the questions posed. McCain was served up soft-toss, with the questions catered to give him easy answers, and all he did was tell stories.
The Second Vietnam story, about the guard with writing the cross in the ground didn't even fit the question posed, but McCain wanted to fit that story in there.
If somebody cuts the film to have Barack and John answer in side by side format, I bet a lot of people would quickly realize that Obama fared much, much better.
August 16, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fluff and slogans win. Same as it ever was. But the good thing is nobody was watching. And McCain looked really short next to Obama and Warren.
August 17, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I started to be a little depressed over this "debate" tonight. McCain did a lot better than I thought he would, except that at one point I was ready to throw the t.v. over him saying "my friend"...that nauseates me.
Then I started thinking about what each of them needed to do. McCain was speaking to his base, and I would imagine they liked what he had to say. I don't think he inspired anyone to get out their checkbook or dedicate the next couple of months toward getting him elected.
Obama on the other hand, was on semi-foreign ground. His job was to allay some fears about who he is, and I think he did that. I tried to be as objective and critical as I could be, and I sure didn't see a scary guy. He was probably a little on the intellectual side, but he is, and you can't be someone you're not.
McCain played a LOT on his war hero stuff...now the trick is to show that he isn't that guy anymore...
August 16, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you Jonze, my only concern is the new media narrative...
McBushSame was great, he had certitude, he was concised...
At the end of the day, he remained the same a war mongered, playing on fear, and using his previous talking points...
August 16, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was a forum but the news happened after the forum.
"He got pretty heated when I brought up the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. Wait until you see his response. The transcription and video will be posted very soon."
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/429313.aspx
Obama went off on this guy.
August 16, 2008 11:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you were counting on people not watching the video and seeing that Obama actually handled the question calmly, and well. His answer was forceful, yet effective.
Sell your garbage elsewhere.
August 17, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Denial is not a river in Egypt: the pundits are right, McCain did much better, and I'm not talking about with just the conservative Christian studio audience, either.
Obama talked to Rick Warren about himself like he was having a little chat, introspectively, as if the audience wasn't there, and thereby seemed extremely self-centered and not to care much about the voters watching out there. It would be hard to tell he was even running for president if you didn't know it already; he ignored the viewing audience to have a chat with Rick.
McCain spoke directly to the audience whenever he could, and turned it towards what he would do as president whenever he got a chance.
McCain was asking for the listeners' vote; Obama acted like they weren't there. It was more fuel for the fire on the arrogance front.
Obama needs some serious training. Better get to it, Axelrod team, the real debates are coming soon. He has to learn to talk directly to the audience and in doing so, tell them what he would do for them as president, and ask for their vote.
He's got to show some passion for his own policies and stop being so professorial and introspective; the job he is applying for is not one where you get to endelessly say "on the one hand, on the other hand..." like a professor would do. And showing passion for your policies is not the same thing as giving inspirational speeches, either.
It's very simple, you promise things related to policy, and you do it passionately--like from a past campaign by another Democrat: "I'm going to focus like a laser beam on the economy." (McCain promised all kinds of things tonight.) He's forgetting he's applying for a job, not selling his autobiography.
August 16, 2008 11:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're right, artappraiser--McCain was more energetic, more engaging, and more personable than Obama. That said, McCain also seemed more the politician. His answers seemed prefabricated and just a bit too much like campaign talking points, calculated to please the audience. While his "moral clarity" went over well with the conservative Christians in the hall, many Americans may find his formulations too simplistic, too belligerent, and too hubristic after eight years of Bush's similar type of arrogant and unthinking "moral clarity." McCain also seemed just a bit too agitated and gung ho, I think--and the cheering conservative crowd behind him only accentuated the slightly manic presentation. McCain was just a tad scary, I think, and not only to us liberals. I think he may have alarmed many moderates who are longing for something more subtle and more thoughtful after the prolonged period of willful ignorance that marked the Bush years.
In contrast to McCain, Obama did seem particularly thoughtful and even-keeled. You are right, though, that he needs to connect more personally with his audience. He also needs to be a bit snappier--to use more images and stories in his speech, to make people laugh, and offer more insightful comments. He's thoughtful, but he doesn't come over as brilliant. And while he's likeable in a low-key way, he doesn't really sparkle and charm. He's much stronger when speaking in front of crowds, but he seems to lack spontaneity and energy when talking in forums like this.
Still, I think the mood of the country has shifted considerably since Katrina, and the cocky, arrogant, simplistic bluster of recent Republican politicians--mirrored by McCain last night--may turn voters off. Obama's thoughtfulness and quieter demeanor may actually turn out to be more reassuring and attractive to voters in the end. I sense that Americans are a bit tired of fighting crusades against evil and are ready to take a less commanding and confrontational approach in our dealings with friends and enemies both beyond our borders and within. McCain, for all his energy last night, may be singing the wrong tune, and while the audience in the hall clearly enjoyed McCain's performance, I wonder if the broader audience outside the hall was not in the mood for something quieter and more introspective--something more in harmony with what Obama delivered.
One other thought on McCain. While his POW stories are compelling, do they also not make him seem a bit old and of another era, as if his time has passed, and all that's left for him to do now is reminisce? While the POW story certainly wins respect, I wonder if it also has a downside for McCain, making him look more and more like the ageing WWII veterans so many of us knew from our grandparents' generation.
August 17, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
To me what you're saying is Obama is not a huckster and shinola salesman. I personally like and appreciate that. But to each his own.
August 17, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't watch the Warren thing but I believe you've nailed it. Obama is not demonstrating that he can deliver the goods, the chicken in the pot. Americans are pragmatists. I believe the Democrats have failed miserably in selling a philosophical context and just the fact that the debate is occuring in the context of the religious right demonstrates that, but in the absence of any motivating philosophy you at least have to be able to sell the capacity to execute, to act, to do. Surely, Mayor Daley has mentored Obama in that respect!!
August 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama answered all of the questions very, very thoughtfully, while McCain answered maybe two. He never answered any of the questions asked, always with a POW story, and it really seemed as if he knew the questions before they were asked. Why did Mr. Warren admonish Mr. Obama about three or four times to not answer with a stump speech (which he never did) and not Mr. McCain? All he did was speak in stump speech. Feh
August 17, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
At some point down the road we will no doubt hear that someone leaked an overview of the questions to be asked. McCain was much too quick on the draw with his answers and "Pastor Rick" even looked a bit nervous and uncomfortable at times with the rapid responses from McCain.
They couldn't have adjusted all of the Senator's meds to the point of making him psychic.
My gut says he saw part of the exam ahead of time.
August 17, 2008 5:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has long ago solidified his base. McCain is still attmepting to solidify his. For McCain to have any chance of winning, he must have overwhelming support of evangelicals beyond what Bush received. That's not going to happen. But with each move that McCain makes to reasure the doubts of the Christian right, he alienates the independents that his campaign can't afford to lose.
August 17, 2008 7:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's like they had no idea they were in the most conservative county in the united states.
August 17, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who profitted from the ticket sales to this shin-dig?
August 17, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink