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America May Be In Danger Now


Watching the Palin acceptance speech last night, I realized the Republican Party has all but written off the big cities, the black vote, the liberal-leaning independent vote, the unions, and, possibly, the Hispanic vote.

I believe America is in great danger now.  We need to think long and hard about the origins of Facism and about the way American Fascist movements were launched by men like Huey Long and Father Coughlin during the Depression, and, later, by Joseph McCarthy.

In simple terms, Facism is one way to reconcile the conflict between individual needs and society.

Palin's job is to rally the Republican evangelical base and to persuade white, working-class Americans, many of them rural voters, to back John McCain.  In many ways, she is perfect for that job. 

How she goes about it and how successful she is may impact our lives in ways we can catch a glimpse of now, but not yet fully understand.

Listening to Palin last night, there were times when I could picture her in a black uniform and boots, speaking in front of a different flag.

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I agree wholeheartedly. We are in danger, and we are not safe.

But the danger is not "out there", It's coming from within.

What I heard last night would have made the Nazis proud.

This battle must be won, and it will be.

Sarah Palin and the Republicans are supposed to be like Huey Long?

Harharharhar!!!

Billy Glad has lost his marbles!

"Long created the Share Our Wealth program in 1934, with the motto "Every Man a King," proposing new wealth redistribution measures in the form of a net asset tax on large corporations and individuals of great wealth to curb the poverty and crime resulting from the Great Depression."

Exactly like the Republicans!!!

Karl Rove and Grover Norquist are right out front with the Republican plan for a "net asset tax on large corporations and individuals of great wealth."

"Wealth redistribution" is the motto of the Republican Party!

Harharharhar!!!

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Not nearly as different as you'd think.

Each is using the populist issues of his time to cover up a much uglier agenda that threatens fundamental American liberties.

It's just that economic populism was more effective then and cultural populism is more effective now.

Harharharhar!!!

Huey Long was trying to tax the rich harder than anybody ever taxed them, and what did he do with the money?

"Long pushed a number of bills through the 1928 session of the Louisiana State Legislature to fulfill campaign promises. These included a free textbook program for schoolchildren... night courses for adult literacy and a supply of cheap natural gas for the city of New Orleans.

Long began an unprecedented public works program, building roads, bridges, hospitals and educational institutions."

Doesn't that sound exactly like the Republicans?

How stupid can you possibly be?

Harharharhar!!!


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I couldn't agree with you more Billy. I had similar reflections as I watched the speech. But I have faith that Sarah Palin actually represents only a relatively small minority of Americans. My sense is that her act is more in tune with 2002 and 2004 than 2008, and doesn't have legs.

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So far I fail to see the evidence of anyone on the GOP ticket or in their campaign org resembling the Nazi party of late 1930s Germany. The economic, cultural and racial circumstances are not the same either.

If you were looking for brown shirts and the violent suppression of dissent before the Fascists eroded civil liberties in Germany, for example, you would not have seen them. That's why I'm asking you to think about the origins of Fascism. How it gets a foothold.

In my view, the problem begins with the way we think about freedom. If we define freedom as the absence of any regulation of the individual in the interest of society, we are on the way to setting people up for a choice between individual freedom and society. That's a contest that is seldom won by the individual.

I wholeheartedly agree. This is turning out to be not so much a convention as an incitement to riot. The cult of personality turns out to be the GOP, complete with flag-waving, hate upon hate, and a "strong leader" who argued against reading people their rights.

The contempt among the Republican Right for the very legal rights that motivated the founding fathers to break from England is startling and frightening.

Yep, there was something about her last night that seriously turned me off and I think you've clarified what exactly it was. The war-hero cultism of the plutocrat/theocrat coalition has gone too far. Meanwhile, there has clearly been a concerted effort to erase evidence of her radical political leanings and to stop the media from examining her record. Very worrying.

I sincerely hope that her aggression is not going to connect with middle america. In terms of energy policy, I hope that Americans realize that "drill baby drill" is seriously lacking as an energy policy. I found hope in the ridiculous deliver of the words on foreign policy that were put in her mouth. They were the highlight of an entirely dishonest, mean-spirited and ridiculous speech.

Intersting idea about the war hero cult of personality.

In effect, they're saying re-pay John McCain for his sacrifice and imprisonment with the Presidency. In a way, it alleviates the torment inside voters of dealing with the guilt of sending off so many to Iraq in our nation's biggest strategic blunder.

Good one, Wade. McCain "earned it." Hadn't mentally linked it to the feelings about Iraq. Worth thinking on. Tnx.

This is what you should have posted. Good.

It might surprise you that I agree in large part, though remain unconvinced that this particular personification represents quite as powerful a movement as you do.

Let go of your crutch, Mr. Glad, and make a difference.

I couldn't have posted it earlier. It was the result of a dialogue with intelligent people on my thread. When I read your comments, on the other hand, I see the final triumph of stupidity in the world. Just go away. Thanks.

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By "intelligent people", Billy means people who agree with and/or praise him. Begone, troll. When Billy posts, the thread is his domain.

Billy, we think you're a genius. Can we have a cookie?

Glad you're back, bunkitty. Don't let the jerks push you out. The site is the lesser when their little hissy fits influence anything or anyone.

I thought we were rid of you for good. But why are you trying to deflect this discussion? Just can't stand me? Amusing and pathetic.

Sure. We have some punch for you, roo and articleman on the other thread, too. Come on over and have a big glass of it. :)

Hrebby, you're not taking Billy's argument seriously enough.

The GOP has written off blacks and hispanics, city dwellers, union menbers, liberals and independents. This means we should be deeply concerned about the possible rise of Fascism in America.

Think about it. We're seeing the consequences already of the GOP writing off blacks and hispanics, city dwellers, union menbers, liberals and independents. Obama's lead is growing. No sign of a convention bounce. The hardcore Base is energized but more and more turned off. More and more evidence popping up that Palin was hardly vetted at all (or that McCain ignored the results of the vetting).

Can you watch this happening and not be concerned?

So work with me here. The GOP is writing off huge chunks of the voting public, and is thereby putting American in Grave Danger.

Now just imagine that the GOP ups the ante and also writes off women. (You think this is farfetched? See the focus group results on the TPM front page. They're already doing it, my friend.)

Where would it stop? What if they don't stop there but go on to threaten to destroy our country by also writing off men and heterosexuals?

You can see where this leads. The Earth itself ripped apart by the forces unleased by this diabolical GOP strategy of alienating voters. The result? A new asteroid belt. McCain probably ends up with at least one of his houses on a good-sized chunk of what's left of the planet ... but not all of us will be so lucky. Not all of us will be so lucky.

She kept saying "Great Leader," with those shining, adoring eyes, and it was a kick to the gut for me. Reagan-Thatcher gave me that feeling (and both were initially taken as lightweights), but the conditions for deep damage are greater now: Media more controlled; Executive power greater; spying & detention; An enemy more easily found or imagined anywhere; People more rootless, or detached; Economic "threat" greater than in 1979-82 (conditions worse then, tenuousness greater now); Multiple wars; Lots of torture talk, glory, God and flag; The hidden big Corporare hand; The pitch to small business & the Poujadists.

Above all, what they're Drilling for is... RESENTMENT.

So Jackboots on Palin? Easy to see. What next? 1. Watch for them to throw more foreign (or even domestic) threats & "events" into the mix. 2. They'll keep Palin targeted on Obama, not Biden. 3. Obama is going to have to continue to grow, adapt as circumstances change.

This is all perhaps worst-case imaginings, but the intentions of the McCain campaign are clearer. And Palin is nasty, new, carries baggage & may well explode. But no mistake, their intent is more explicitly nasty now... and more dangerous forces have been loosed. Work hard in Michigan Billy.

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If Palin had not defended herself as she did, the onlookers would not have respected her. That is why you and others have used personal attacks -- if she shrinks from them she's not strong enough -- if she fights back, she must be a fascist.

False dichotomy lacking in evidence.

Not very impressive.

She didn't make any effort to connect with people on the economy. Demagogues(and she clearly wants to be one) usually rally their supporters with some kind of economic populism.

She scares me but not for 2008. Her slick, sarcasm will connect with some people, but not those actually struggling to put food on the table.

We need to keep pushing the media to cover her contradictions, misrepresentations, and hypocrisies.

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Listening to Palin last night, there were times when I could picture her in a black uniform and boots, speaking in front of a different flag.

Yeah. There were also times when one could picture Reese Witherspoon in a pink outfit...

Why are you trying to deflect this thread, pussy hare? Don't see a threat of Fascism in the McCain campaign? Don't like me? Think there are more serious issues to discuss? Just feel the need to be slapped around a little? I don't get it. Why don't you want people to think about this issue?

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Billy, you're being shrill. Sarah Palin is a sock puppet. She's NOT going to get into the White House. Not ever. Don't get panicky, Hot Dog--the religious right have always been a bunch of brownshirts. Nothing's changed.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2005/feb/14/00007/

http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=3798

Now I'm confused, Bunny. I always thought it was brownshirts too, but Billy said he could envision Sara in a black unifrom and you know he knows everything.

But by the way, I do agree that these people are totally fascistic and they're a threat, particularly if McCain should get elected and die in office and his "advisors" get to run Sara
Palin. But this isn't anything new, is it?

Sort of makes me wonder why Billy Glad made such a big deal about how he was going to vote and go out and work for John McCain a while back -- because Obama of course couldn't come up to snuff for the lionhearted Mr. Glad.

Is he just waking up? Or will he flip flop tomorrow again?

You know what, anna? When I leave I'm going to will my blog to you. I'll tell you why later. If you play your cards right, I may give my little trolls to you, too. We'll see how you do over the next couple of days.

I'm confused, too, anna. I was told only women could be "shrill."

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No one's trying to "deflect" the conversation, you pompous ass. According to your rules, anyone who agrees with you is trying to contribute to an intelligent conversation. Everyone else is just trying to "deflect" the conversation. You're being shrill, Billy. Sarah Palin is not a threat. The religious right are already a bunch of brownshirts, and she's not going to be elected anyway.

I think we should stifle its free speech around here. What do you think?

I think you sound like a fascist.

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No one's trying to "deflect" the conversation, you pompous ass. According to your rules, anyone who agrees with you is trying to contribute to an intelligent conversation. Everyone else is just trying to "deflect" the conversation. You're being shrill, Billy. Sarah Palin is not a threat. The religious right are already a bunch of brownshirts, and she's not going to be elected anyway.

I think we should stifle its free speech around here. What do you think?

I think you sound like a fascist.

Listening to Palin speak last night, there were times when I *did* picture her in a black uniform and boots!

But then, sadly, I came back to reality.

Try not to act out your avatar, Little Alex. It's a sign of madness.

Rec'd

Rec'd

Exaggerated, I think. I'm not fond of arguments that raise the specter of fascism, but the Karl Rove wing of the Party has long sought to turn the Democrats into the party of "minorities". Is this because they have some nefarious evil design or because they see that as an expedient to power. I think the later, primarily. Demographic projections of the Hispanic population growth , and probable growth of future immigrant flows from Asia might make that a losing proposition over the long ruin.

It's very instructive to study how they re-districted Texas--got rid of all the white Democrats and made sure that the majority black and Hispanic districts stayed consolidated. Deeply cynical at the very least.

I doubt Facism requires a "nefarious evil design." I think the opportunistic pursuit of power may be enough. I don't know. That's why I'm suggesting some reflection on the origins of Fascism.

It's also interesting to notice which commentors are trying to deflect the discussion today.

I've suspected the hrebendorf character for some time now. Pops up when the heat gets turned up on the McCain campaign. I think we should stifle its free speech around here. What do you think?

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No one's trying to "deflect" the conversation, you pompous ass. According to your rules, anyone who agrees with you is trying to contribute to an intelligent conversation. Everyone else is just trying to "deflect" the conversation. You're being shrill, Billy. Sarah Palin is not a threat. The religious right are already a bunch of brownshirts, and she's not going to be elected anyway.

I think we should stifle its free speech around here. What do you think?

I think you sound like a fascist.

hrebendorf, let it go. Everyone here knows you have always supported Obama.

Hey, Rip. We were just talking OttoF over on the other thread.

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No one's trying to "deflect" the conversation, you pompous ass. According to your rules, anyone who agrees with you is trying to contribute to an intelligent conversation. Everyone else is just trying to "deflect" the conversation. You're being shrill, Billy. Sarah Palin is not a threat. The religious right are already a bunch of brownshirts, and she's not going to be elected anyway.

I think we should stifle its free speech around here. What do you think?

I think you sound like a fascist.

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No one's trying to "deflect" the conversation. According to your rules, anyone who agrees with you is trying to contribute to an intelligent conversation. Everyone else is just trying to "deflect" the conversation. You're being shrill, Billy. Sarah Palin is not a threat. The religious right are already a bunch of brownshirts, and she's not going to be elected anyway.

I think we should stifle its free speech around here. What do you think?

I think you sound like a fascist.

MercerReader: "We need to keep pushing the media to cover her contradictions, misrepresentations, and hypocrisies."

Do you want to do the same for Obama? There is plenty harvest there.

I'm not crazy about McCain, but Obama doesn't have the right solutions for any of the major issues: taxes, education, national security, immigration, economy, healthcare etc. He wants the government to take care of and run everything - wrong answer.


MercerReader: "We need to keep pushing the media to cover her contradictions, misrepresentations, and hypocrisies."

Do you want to do the same for Obama? There is plenty harvest there.

I'm not crazy about McCain, but Obama doesn't have the right solutions for any of the major issues: taxes, education, national security, immigration, economy, healthcare etc. He wants the government to take care of and run everything - wrong answer.


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hey, wingnuts...

DRILL THIS!

Hey Billy --

Have you ever read "It Can't Happen Here" by, I think, Upton Sinclair?

This all seems real familiar. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Sarah has her own collection of Minutemen.

In Japan, Yukio Mishima had a private army. His was a work of art -- guerrilla theater. Maybe if we had more theater we'd have fewer threats to liberty.

In Japan, Yukio Mishima had a private army. His was a work of art -- guerrilla theater. Maybe if we had more theater we'd have fewer threats to liberty.

Sinclair Lewis actually, but Upton is still relevant. The Jungle is even now the story of many immigrants; The Brass Check, if anything, is even more applicable now.

Palin, Huckabee, and Giuliani were pitching to anti-affirmative-action blacks too.

WTF?

If you didn't see those 3 speeches in real time, LowlyWorm, you won't know what I'm talking about.

I've been worried about creeping authoritarianism for eight years now. In particular, it seems like we've turned our airports into poorly quarintined hotspots of dystopic police state contagion.

But "writing off the big cities, the black vote, the liberal-leaning independent vote, the unions, and, possibly, the Hispanic vote" is a recipe for electoral disaster--because you just described overwhelming electoral majority.

I get what you're saying. The Republican party has become ever more frankly authoritarian in outlook and platform, and rural evangelicals are uniquely susceptable to that way of thinking. But, to my mind, the real danger doesn't come from the countryside, it comes from the boardrooms. I don't think its a coincidence that the Republicans official ideology is becoming frankly militaristic and authoritarian at the same time its economic policies frankly embrace policies that promote increasing income stratificaiton and the dissolution of the middle class. The more our income distribution and class system look like Guatamala in the 1960s the more the party of the rich will want our government to look like Guatamala in the 1960s.

Perceptive. If you watched the Republican convention you'd believe America was a land of entrepreneurs and shopkeepers. Corporations seldom get mentioned. Question is, do they control both Parties, or just the Republican Party? The government and corporations collaborated in Italian Fascism, didn't they? Who was Oz? I forget.

Forgive the doublepost if it happens, got a 500 error on submitting this earlier but I haven't seen it pop up since, so here's a reworded try no. 2 -

If you watched the Republican convention you'd believe America was a land of entrepreneurs and shopkeepers. Corporations seldom get mentioned.
There was a survey done by Time in 2000 that asked people if they were in the top 1 percent of earners in America. 19% said they were, and an additional 20% said they would be "soon". Americans think America is a land of entrepreneurs and shopkeepers. Republicans are smart to exploit that.

The alternative message isn't exactly an easy sell. Nobody wants to hear that they ain't all that, and even fewer want to know that 12% of Americans (20% of America's children) are too poor to provide themselves with basic needs and millions beyond that are classified as impoverished, and seems like nobody wants to hear that they've got an obligation to help those people out.

Perceptive. If you watched the Republican convention you'd believe America was a land of entrepreneurs and shopkeepers. Corporations seldom get mentioned. Question is, do they control both Parties, or just the Republican Party? The government and corporations collaborated in Italian Fascism, didn't they? Who was Oz? I forget.

Perceptive. If you watched the Republican convention you'd believe America was a land of entrepreneurs and shopkeepers. Corporations seldom get mentioned. Question is, do they control both Parties, or just the Republican Party? The government and corporations collaborated in Italian Fascism, didn't they? Who was Oz? I forget.

If you watched the Republican convention you'd believe America was a land of entrepreneurs and shopkeepers. Corporations seldom get mentioned.
There was a Time Magazine poll from 2000 that asked people if t