John McCain and Elizabeth Edwards
John,
You and Elizabeth Edwards are both living with cancer. You both have health insurance. If either of you lost that insurance, you'd never get it back. Here's one difference between you and Elizabeth. She understands the reality of this societal crime and cares about the rest of us. You don't give a damn. Don't stand up there and pretend that you do. Really, you're insulting my intelligence.
You just offered $5,000 as a tax credit to help us get health insurance for a year. What world are you living in, John?
Come down here out of your seven houses and your millions. Try and get health insurance with your cancer history. Come on down here, John. Be a real hero.
I want the same health insurance that I pay for you "Warrshington" insiders to have. I want you to give me the same policy that I'm giving you. Make sense?
What happened to that credit card American vets were going to have for healthcare? I always liked that idea, John, because the logical response is that we all should have one. You see John, the worker in an American factory is just as deserving as a vet. And just as deserving as you. We all built America, John.
You and Elizabeth Edwards are both living with cancer. You both have health insurance. If either of you lost that insurance, you'd never get it back. Here's one difference between you and Elizabeth. She understands the reality of this societal crime and cares about the rest of us. You don't give a damn. Don't stand up there and pretend that you do. Really, you're insulting my intelligence.
You just offered $5,000 as a tax credit to help us get health insurance for a year. What world are you living in, John?
Come down here out of your seven houses and your millions. Try and get health insurance with your cancer history. Come on down here, John. Be a real hero.
I want the same health insurance that I pay for you "Warrshington" insiders to have. I want you to give me the same policy that I'm giving you. Make sense?
What happened to that credit card American vets were going to have for healthcare? I always liked that idea, John, because the logical response is that we all should have one. You see John, the worker in an American factory is just as deserving as a vet. And just as deserving as you. We all built America, John.
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Thanks for a hard-hitting, fresh perspective on this issue.
Only in America does cancer spread faster than healthcare.
September 19, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, McCain probably wouldn't have any problems getting his health-care back, which is one reason why he doesn't care that others would. RHIP: Rank hath its privileges.
September 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Rank hath its privileges."
Yeah and McBush is pretty rank. LOL
September 20, 2008 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent blog, Cypher. The $5,000 or so that McCain is offering IS a joke. I can't believe he actually listens to the words as they come out of his mouth. It is contemptible and cowardly. This coming from the man who claims to "put country first."
He continually says " I'd rather lose an election than see my country lose a war."
He can add that he'd rather see millions of Americans die first than lose the election!
September 19, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Northern perspective. In 2004, the CBC ran a campaign to pick the Greatest Canadian. A little guy from the prairies won, over every author, Trudeau, the guys who invented basketball & insulin, the Man Called Intrepid & William Shatner, McLuhan, Joni & Neil, even over Howe & Gretzky. His name was Tommy Douglas. He was a lightweight boxing champion, a Baptist preacher, the leader of a 3rd party (& eventually the grandfather of Kiefer Sutherland.) His self-description was "the little fellow with an idea."
He won because he was the Father of universal health care in Canada. He won (in 1962) in the face of a massive attack from the doctors, who went on strike. He won even though he started it in a small, poor, province - Saskatchewan. He won by gaining the support of major thinkers from the two major parties, both PM's - Diefenbaker & Pearson. He won because he proved he could do it while running a tighter fiscal ship than anyone else. He won because he was probably the greatest public speaker the country had ever seen. He won because he was a boxer, a preacher, a veteran & a truthteller. And he won because, after fighting through this all, the door - and the times - opened to him.
I mention this for 3 reasons. 1st, because Canadians have come to value this program - and thus, its founder - above everything else the nation has produced. 2nd, because this effort has, and can again, fail in the US. It will take a particular conjunction of people, politics & events to win. And 3rd, to suggest that it will take a particular fighting spirit & set of skills in the leader of this campaign; an ability to gain support across the floor & from opponents; a method to manage the costs & make it clear & practical; and above all, a particular political opening. My question then, is whether these conditions exist in the US today?
And will this way of posing the issue to McCain help create the conditions needed for victory?
September 19, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Without an economy that factors health care into its deep structure, America can't compete in this century. The same holds true for lack of infrastructure, especially mass transportation. What we've seen in this week's economic stumbling is not just about real estate loans. It's about a house of cards, or better said, perhaps, a house of worthless dollars. Beyond the nasty and illegal greed that has manipulated the stock market, the deep issue is about what that paper is worth.
America doesn't make much anymore and things are not getting better. Real estate is one of the things that does have value. So when it's fooled with by speculators big and small, it too slips in value undermining the little that's left.
People didn't tare enough notice when the United State Air Force gave a contract to Airbus instead of Boeing. It was a better deal they said. It was a better plane for "our" money. It wasn't a better deal for Boeing['s workers or Seattle, or our economy.
We can't compete with Airbus in the long run. It's a company in a group of countries that have tackled health care. They have spread out the risk so that it's cheaper by enough to make a difference.
These are difficult ideas to get over to the American public. And more complicated surely than I'm suggesting here. But Obama and others have to start finding ways to make the economic connections and the gut-level connections whenever they can.
Today is such a day. McCain throws up crap that people will believe. If Obama isn't taking this on he's a fraud.
Another additional problem --perhaps the most problematic--is that MANY people with healthcare--and that includes Democrats don't care enough about those who don't have it. If they did, healthcare would poll higher as an important issue.
There are times when it's now or never. From my point of view, it's now. And crap on everyone with healthcare who won't fight for everyone to have it. P.S. you haven't really looked around you if you think you're safe. You ain't.
I was KIDDING on the caps, quinn, the other DAY,
September 19, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
$5000? I run my own business. I have to self insure me, my wife, and my kids. The best policy we could find is $1,100/month premium with a $5000 deductible. I can't get affordable disability insurance because I'm a machinist. He's outta his mind. I am also a Viet Nam Vet, still waiting for that card. Because I'm category 8 (not wounded in action), I get nothing. Even if McCain wasn't rich, he could still get coverage through the VA.
September 19, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if someone in your family has a serious illness, you won't get any insurance.
How can McCain claim that he wants to help small business without dealing with healthcare?
September 19, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's exactly right. Small business cannot afford it anymore. That's when I quit my job with a small business and started my own. They dropped all of our benefits. The long commute and hours didn't make sense any more. If Obama would start talking about that angle, he'd get a lot of attention... How to make it easier/cheaper for small businesses to purchase plans and cover their employees.
September 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to admit that I'm disappointed that he's not making these points. Actually I'm angry that he's not making these points.
There's a disconnect when the healthcare ads come from the AARP
and not Obama. This is not the issue to play down. McCain will continue attacks. The "I'll -lose- my -choice -of- doctor" routine works with too many people who have healthcare. Obama and his people have to have a plan to present healthcare as manageable and necessary.
September 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
This probably wouldn't break through the other economic noise right now. Timing is everything ... wait until people are talking about the plans to rebuild and deciding who's interests need to be looked out for.
Today I think it's all about keeping the world economy from full on collapsing.
September 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain made his offer on healthcare this morning. Obama's history for responding to issues is mighty slow. Someone in McCain's camp really had the right move here -bringing up healthcare when we haven't head anything about it from Obama recently. He addressed it in a speech later on today after McCain. He should have been first. Today is an opening. I want to see Obama take it.
September 19, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough. I think McCain's trying to change the subject to anything other than his gaffe-a-minute on the economy meltdown ... and you are falling for it.
There are weeks and weeks to hammer McCain on healthcare - the economy meltdown is happening right now and will be on a track to resolution next week. Obama needs to make hay while the sun shines and show leadership on the core economy - because McCain clearly can't. If he nails it this week for the bankers, the election is done.
September 19, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
No there aren't weeks and weeks. You seem to think world events will be suspended from now until November so Obama can focus the country on his message. Well, the last 3 weeks have been sucked up by Sarah Palin and Wall Street. Anything can happen in the next 6 weeks.
It's a race, a competition. Speed and strength are everything now.
September 19, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Common sense from the Gasket.
September 20, 2008 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who'dathunkit?
September 20, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
How heretical is it to say that I'm wishing I voted for Hillary? At this point, I'm saying it.
September 19, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not heretical. I will be very careful here, since I am trying to be diplomatic, but her proposals would have been very hard to pass, and some feared a repeat of the 1990s approach, which was too much too fast and so we got nothing. That said, I hope very much that Obama works hard with her, from whatever position she is in (Senate, Cabinet) to push some plan forward. It will have to be incremental, though. But there's no going back--it's McCain v. Obama now, and the choice should be clear who is more likely to place health care coverage on the agenda for the first term.
September 19, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've worked hard for Obama. I send my money every month. So I'm going to participate in the ground up idea.
One reason I didn't vote for Hillary was that I believed the last time around with her health effort was ill-conceived and a waste of political capital. But if Hillary were the candidate today she would discussing healthcare. She would have no choice. If she had been the VP candidate, healthcare would be in the discussion. Let's get real here.
Maybe if Obama heard a bit more about how people really feel about this, he and his people will start being more effective with their ads.
Where are the Democrats? Where is that unified front where Obama and the Dems come out and make a pact with the American people about what they are going to do?
It never occurred to me that I'd be sitting around in September waiting for the words "healthcare" to come out of Obama's mouth.
If he downplays it now, I know we're not getting it or what we'll get won't be much. I want him back on specifics --the same kind of talk we heard in the primary. That is the pact he made with us when he asked for our votes and our money.
I want someone over at the Obama camp to wake up and start making effective ads that put the pieces together. They are looking like amateurs. That's the change I'm looking for.
September 19, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
GE's ain't Primaries. And in GE's, winning tends to be pretty much the sole focus. Lemme try it this way.
1. Obama's gaining ground, a point a day. McCain's on the back foot. He's losing each cycle; having to waste time dealing with the "lies" issue; Palin's deflating; Republicans are leaping off the ship; Obama's got his ground game going, AND he's got a much wider & deeper team of allies out there fighting for him. NO way do you mess with that. When they've gotten all the mileage they can... they'll shift.
2. Right now, the US economic meltdown clobbers health insurance, an economic meltdown that literally is scaring the shit out of the hardened pols & finance people. Why is it more important? Because it can cause millions of people to lose their jobs AND their health insurance, PLUS, it's an issue that could collapse the US Treasury. No money, no health care.
3. Even if this was normal times, there are still other issues - some of which are felt by people to be the "overwhelming" issue right now. For military families/friends/neighbours, their kids may die from IED's, not from the lack of health care. For those losing their home or job, or who're being jammed closer & closer by high gas/food prices - the risk of family breakdown, emotional collapse, all of that, may come pressing in BEFORE health consequences do. For some, climate change actually registers higher. Why? Well, start with hurricanes, floods, drought. Move on to the fact that hundreds of millions worldwide live so close to the edge (Bangladesh, Sahel, etc.) that even small shifts can take their lives away.
So, Obama's gaining... The economy is crashing... And there are a handful of issues which are also life/death to people, in addition to health care. And Hillary, right now, this week, I can say in stone cold confidence, would be talking the Economy, non-stop. Before that, she would have been all over McCain's lies, and before that, responding to Palin - e.g. on abortion. Politicians - good ones - shift ground as circumstances require. Heard Obama hammering on about Iraq lately? Not much.
That said, I think Obama WILL reraise it. He can win with this, AS the economic collapse becomes more central in people's minds. He's already looking for ways to broaden it out from this (rather useless) debate focussed solely on the finance sector, and arcane mechanisms, and whether to go after Regulation more than Greed. He's talking now about Pensions, and College Savings, and how the crisis affects those realities. Health care will come.
What can WE do? Well, I think if we came up with better & more creative ways to raise the Health Care issue, that would help. a) Like you did above, re: McCain's own coverage. b) I'd also suggest stories on the COST of getting Universal Health Care vs. the cost of bailing out AIG, Bear-Stearns, pumping hundreds of billions into the banks, etc. (Same sort of comparison as was done for Health vs Iraq spending) c) Thinking further ahead, I'd say Obama needs to argue for a comprehensive set of programs & actions which will CUT BILLS for Americans. Energy... mortgages... AND health care. d) People here suggested linking it to lifting the burden off struggling businesses.... If we pumped these kinds of lines out, looked for images and catchphrases and allies and examples, so we could better make the case, and all the time raising the issue, then we're more likely to actually GET it. PLUS, why not push for Hillary & Bill & others on the team to make sure THEY keep raising it?
September 19, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not buying that primary vs. GE bullshit on healthcare. Other issues yes, but not one the few central issues Obama ran with.
Nothing is more essential to redefine the American mindset and economy than healthcare. And the time when Americans finally understand that the old economy is slipping away, and the problems are beyond simple fixes, this is the opening for the bold leadership that puts the pieces together. Tip-toeing around the core issues and not making clear the relationship among them can't win this.
The perverse fascination and joy about Palin with which the Left now amuses itself on blogs disgusts me. It shows me that the Left has no dedicated focus on the issues--just on Obama.
This isn't American Idol. I've never seen anything quite like this.
Tactics are one thing. Sitting back and playing possum to not make mistakes is not a way to win this election.
September 19, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not much of a Bill Clinton fan. I have my reasons. But does anyone remember the bold platform that got him elected?
September 19, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, a split electorate, low turnout and Ross Perot. Otherwise, Clinton is a footnote.
September 20, 2008 8:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
good point
September 20, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Quinn said:
"2. Right now, the US economic meltdown clobbers health insurance, an economic meltdown that literally is scaring the shit out of the hardened pols & finance people. Why is it more important? Because it can cause millions of people to lose their jobs AND their health insurance, PLUS, it's an issue that could collapse the US Treasury. No money, no health care."
Sadly, though, people do not realize how untrue this is. The fact that 30% or more of every health care dollar spent goes to the insurance companies, not to the providers, means that the lack of a national health care program is a slow bleed on the US economy. It's just doesn't happen overnight, is all. You don't turn on the TV news and see that some new financial debacle occurred, because the bleed has been going on for years. As previously stated, jobs and competitiveness all go away to other nations that have already seen the light.
September 20, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blessings upon you......father
September 20, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cypher. I hear ya. But I think Quinn is right. The point now is to grab the big issues and get elected. I can tell you that Obama's team is working hard on healthcare issues. I say that as someone in DC helping out, especially on issues surrounding veterans' health. Your take on Clinton is accurate. I worked with the Clinton Health Care Task Force effort in 1992, and it was just a disaster (and I know I was on the right team). But there is both a wisdom and a challenge in the bureaucracy, which Hillary couldn't see at the time. DC ain't Arkansas. I am confident she learned from that but still worried in 2008 that her plans were too radical to get through the gate. This has to be done incrementally. Obama knows that and had a really smart group that has identified the low-hanging fruit before having to go to Congress with major legislative proposals.
September 19, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
This country is about to make its biggest move to socialist economics since the depression. And at the end it, it looks like we're not going to have health insurance. We're going to have a trillion dollar debt to bail out capitalist speculators. And we're still going to be funding military efforts that do nothing for is except keep the flag waving.
Sometimes things have to get worse to get better. We're at that moment. There is not going to be a lot to go around after this.
This is the time to make clear what we're going to have on the other side.
Remember, John McCain made a speech today in which he offered a health care solution. It's crap. But unless Obama counters with something, it's enough to fool plenty of folks.
So. How long are we planning to wait? Next week? Two weeks?
After the election? What's the plan here. Tip toe in and do the right thing?
I'm done with waiting like a dope on this issue for thirty years.
September 19, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's just a damn shame that decisions on universal health insurance are going to be made in the context of this bail out instead of decisions about this bail out being made in the context of universal health insurance.
September 19, 2008 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Kate.
That was the argument I was making all along in the primaries. You could not be a bull in a china shop like Hillary had proposed and have any chance of it actually being approved by congress. It definitely needs Obama's gradual approach.
Obama keeps his cool. His focus is clear. He has a healthcare plan that will work for all of us.
Just wait and see Billy. It will happen.
September 20, 2008 2:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I am also a Viet Nam Vet, still waiting for that card."
If you have a combat action ribbon, talk to your VA officer about PTSD.
September 20, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to put forth the idea that I suggested a few days back.
The United States has been paying for the healthcare of many countries around the world for decades by using the American military to stabilize their regions --specifically Europe and Asia.
It's time to wrap the flag around this issue for the average American. And make him feel that we've been cheated.
Does anyone think that after this election, even if Obama wins, that we WON'T still be spending millions each month on the war against terrorism? How exactly are we selling that? We know it's crap. We can be down to our last ATM machine's buck and we'll still be funding that war. How? It's patriotism, brother.
What percentage of the war in Afghanistan is being paid for by Europeans?
Time to wrap the flag around healthcare and social security. American dollars for Americans. American dollars for American healthcare.
September 19, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish I had more recommends.
Folks, this is a winning campaign issue. Rec this sucker up.
September 19, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Before you go congratulating McCain for mentioning health care, read this:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/mccain-on-banking-and-health/
September 19, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, this "crisis" in finance is going to make both of the campaigns less relevant for a while.
Management of this crisis and the institutional changes the candidate who gets elected will inherit are going to be put in place by the Bush administration and the Congress.
The only way Obama or McCain will affect the outcome is to cast their votes as Senators.
Of course, they have to express an opinion in order to appear Presidential. Otherwise, some fan or pundit ringside will grab a folding chair and smack them in the head with it.
This cleanup of the mortgage industry is going to alter the political environment so drastically that both campaigns are going to have to go back to the drawing board on health insurance, education, taxes, energy policy, the occupation, security, war on terror -- everything is going to have to move over for this gorilla.
And what is it all about? We are going to buy at auction all of those loans that never should have been made in the first place. That is going to put every issue in this campaign at risk.
But we ridicule old John McCain for first saying the Chairman of the SEC ought to be fired and then saying he should resign. Gotcha, John.
Well, I'll say it. We the people should fire everyone involved in this disaster in any way, whether we "can" or not.
September 19, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you think it will be solved before the election? The market is up today at the news of a bailout. But what's stopping more of a meltdown? Now that it's out of control, isn't it possible that this can't be stopped? What about short sellers? What kind of regulations have to be implemented?
September 19, 2008 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know. The conventional wisdom seems to be that the damage is still confined to the financial markets and that the bail out will stop it from actually tanking the economy. As far as new regulations go, my guess is they'll look at derivatives along with short sales. I think the bail out and institutional changes will be in place by the election.
If McCain goes after the people who caused this disaster and we go after McCain, even a dummy like me can predict the outcome.
We're the ones should be going after them. We have to find a way to put this bail out in the context of our programs. It's time that people understood that kids are going to go without healthcare while the greedy bastards who brought the financial system down are walking away with millions of dollars.
September 19, 2008 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do we do that Billy? And how do we move on from this with some kind of new path?
September 19, 2008 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I say it is a simple message:
People don't get bailouts. Small businesses don't get bailouts. There are bankruptcy laws for a reason, but there are consequences to all actions and they don't include bailouts. This is nothing but a another massive transfer of money from the US treasury to private hands.
We are going to let these business be accountable for their risky behavior as a lesson to those still operating. Let them "go out of business" if that is the end result of their unethical actions and criminal malfeasance. We will do what we can to help the individual employees, but the executives who were responsible will be prosecuted for any statute they have violated.
No one in America is above the laws we have agreed to live by.
Simple message if someone has the balls to pick it up. Teddy did. So did FDR. I don't Obama can be that aggressive for his first term because this country is damaged in fundamental ways and is the first potential black president.
We will all be surprised at just how much of a reformer Barack is on January 20th.
September 20, 2008 8:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
What are the chances that any of these guys is held responsible or has to pay back money? Not much I'm thinking.
September 20, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm thinking it would be interesting to speculate on how these guys would be dealt with in some other countries. What would they do with them in Canada, say? Or in China? Japan? England? Israel? Mexico? Brazil? Cuba?
September 20, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Canada - Ask Quinn.
China -Execution.
Japan -Humiliation that leads to suicide.
England -- I'm asking Quinn again. He lived there.
Cuba -- Execution.
Brazil, Mexico, no idea.
September 20, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Israel. I can't see anything here. And when I try to, it makes me nervous. Interesting.
September 20, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not much given past precedent, but until we let them fail, we won't be able to spend that money on wiser investments with better returns. I don't see the value in the trillion dollars we are spending on this farce.
September 20, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok. If you want health care, and want to be angry, I'm all for it. That's my style too. The best political campaigns have BOTH brains and passion. I just want to debate what're the best ANGLES or hooks to get us there. You set out different ways to hook health care into the campaign - 1) By linking McCain's own health care plan (as a vet) to the rest of us in the workforce; 2) You link it to the flag again by saying we're paying for other nation's health care; 3) And you use the economic arguments. I'm saying let's hump that last hook - the economy. Right now, Iraq and war and the vets aren't even registering on the media, or the polls. But the economy? A winner. And if McCain COMES BACK against it... then we hit him on his own vets health care. Here's a few POSSIBLE economic angles:
- We, the American people, are willing to ensure the economic HEALTH of our bankers, our insurance companies & our construction firms. Well, as part of that deal, we're asking THEM to ensure the HEALTH of our own citizens.
- GUARANTEED Health Care for all Americans will cost us $150 billion (or $300 billion).... The bail-outs of a few large investment banks & insurance companies are gonna cost us $1,000 billion. We can do this.
- We JUST FOUND billions to keep the ultra-rich executives & investors ultrarich.... but we can't find money to pay for your child's or your grandmother's healthcare?
- American business is at a competitive DISADVANTAGE because other countries pay for their employees health care costs. In the same way as we're acting to ensure that interest rates & credit costs & energy costs aren't too high for our firms to compete.... so too we have to ensure that the costs of health care do not burden the competitiveness of our companies.
- It's time to take care of the basics, the REAL fundamentals of the American economy - the health of its people.
Here's this weeks' article on Obama's health care program, compared to McCain's, in the WSJ.
A few key lines: "Given the current inefficiencies in our system, the impact of the Obama plan will be profound.... According to our research annual business-sector costs will fall by about $140 billion.... We know these savings are attainable: other countries have them today. We spend 40% more than other countries such as Canada on health care -- nearly $1 trillion -- but our health outcomes are no better.... The lower cost of benefits will allow employers to hire 90,000 low-wage workers currently without jobs... It also would pull 1 and 1/2 million more workers out of low-wage low-benefit and into high-wage high-benefit jobs. Workers currently locked into jobs because they fear losing their health benefits would be able to move...."
September 19, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have the details down quinn. More precisely than I do.
I have a feeling that Billy has it right--that it's all on hold here. But I want to continue about attitudes a bit more.
The following are obvious statements. Not intended for you. But to make a point in simple terms.
We're going through some kind of economic crisis that effects the global economy. But American taxpayers are paying to stop it. When it's done, Canadians will still have their health insurance, right? And Canadians won't have to take on any of this debt. Yes?
When this thing is over will the French and the Germans still have their health insurance? Yes. Will they have a trillion dollar debt to pass on to their citizens? No.
Which countries are closer to Georgia. France, Germany or the USA? (Leaving Alaska out of the test.) How much will France and Germany be putting up for the military efforts in Afghanistan in 2009? We're going to be spending billions.
Regardless of which candidate is elected, and the price tag of this bailout, how much will America be spending on the war on terrorism in each month in 2009? Does 5 billion sound right?
No move in this country toward health insurance, whenever that's going to be, will be successful till a populist message reaches the middle of the American political spectrum. It's a message also of a particular tone.
It's healthcare with an American flag pin stuck through it. That's a style that the American Left has trouble with. That's one of the reasons we keep losing elections.
Let's end up with another test question. Which countries are closest to South Korea? Japan, China or the US? Which country now pays for the security of South Korea?
Gee. I wonder if South Koreans have health insurance.
September 19, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I get your point, but it's weakness is that it has no connection to the global realities right now- and any Administration will now HAVE to pay attention to that.
1. Though no media in America covers it - these other countries you listed HAVE actually poured HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS into supporting the financial system's response. Considering i which nation the crisis originated, and who benefited, the world's public response on this has been quite polite, don't you think?
2. If the US wants to stop putting money into Iraq, and spend it elsewhere, that's its call. But let's not pretend that most of that money ever hit the ground in Iraq. It's being shovelled into corporate pockets whose names you can probably rhyme off in your sleep.
3. Here is the single hardest thing to tell an American audience right now. It's. All. F*cking. Over. Not just a little, not maybe someday, but today, toasted, both sides, burnt black. Try this. Remember Eurodollars & Petrodollars? Well, they're still out there, but new names have now been added - China's Dollar Reserves (and Japan's), the (many) Sovereign Wealth Funds, Russia's energy-derived surpluses. What they amount to is TRILLIONS of US dollars, held by the world, received in payment for everything the US hasn't wanted to pay for itself these last 30 odd years. And now the only question - as always when massively in debt - is how tough the conditions are gonna be. Yes, both sides can get hurt if there's a showdown - so it'll be "negotiated." And if anybody that starts dumping dollars too fast risks triggering a Dollar collapse, and thus losing money themselves. But this is a game of chicken. Because if you wait too LATE, you lose even more. And if you stay invested in the US... you're gonna make 0% interest... in a nation with a 6% inflation rate... fiscal & trade deficits that NOBODY sees clearing up... a Gov't that let's massive firms fail one week, then bails out a trillion $$$ worth the next, shouts for deregulation, and then bans short-selling. Tell me, if this was a Third World nation, and you were an advisor to the World Bank, what would you suggest? I can tell you, the 50 or so countries which have been gutted because of the callous & nationally-interested advice from organizations like the WB/IMF that are NOT gonna be sweetness & light.
Which is another way of saying, ain't no incoming President, John Goddamn War Hero McCain or not, who is gonna be throwing their weight around internationally like a few years back. I've been arguing this for a while - that mucking with Iran or the Russians or China militarily is to ignore a massive current sucking the whole game under. The Money Current. Which if it whips against the US, means ugly times like no living citizen has experienced.
As a columnist wrote earlier today, "The consequences of the (domestically-focussed) bail-out could be disastrous because the GLOBAL markets will ultimately provide the discipline that the US authorities lack the courage to administer. the result will be nothing short of the destruction of the US dollar as a reserve currency." The dollar could crash completely, the cost of every import soar, travel out-of-country collapse, the price of oil (denominated in USD) would SOAR, and foreigners increasingly (since this has already begun) be actively courted to BUY AMERICA. That means the Chinese, all the middle Eastern oil exporters, the Japanese, the Europeans & Russia. See any political problems with this?
No one in the States is ready to hear this yet. The first sounds are only now hitting the eardrums of the public, and they don't understand it. Whoever gets to be next President is gonna have to deliver an awful lot of unhappy noises, to a lot of ears-filled-by-fingers.
But the one thing they CANNOT do is throw their weight around by bashing foreigners. Because it's been a casino for 30 years. And they're now - officially - the House.
September 20, 2008 2:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, you know this kind of stuff or know where to find it. What is the percentage of the budgets spent on defense in France, Germany, Japan and South Korea? Point me in that direction in all seriousness.
What would happen in an Obama first term if he said we're done. Here's my immediate timetable for drawing down the American military around the world by half or more. I'll take the consequences. If an Iraq policy is concerned about Iraq taking on more financial responsibility, how is that different from asking European nations to take on more responsibilities with Russia.
Why is the US deploying new missiles in Europe. Why isn't the EU paying for those missiles?
You can tell me that there's money here for American industrialists. Fine. But here's a chance to break that up. But only
cloaked in American bucks for Americans.
September 20, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that Obama ads could be better (best one I only saw once -- comparing/overlapping McCain and Bush "wolves" ads) but I have the sense, have had the sense, that there's some calendar in Axelrod's office that says "begin healthcare push now" (same thing with a couple of other issues that are real attention-grabbers) -- The public has a very short attention-span and, in particular, McCain's health care proposal is horrifying and totally stupid. It's too obviously something that will resonate with voters, so I can't believe they aren't planning to hit it. Timing is something they have done very well. Maybe around the time before the debate on domestic issues? -- Maybe I'm being too optimistic but this campaign hasn't been DUMB. -- Last week would have been a bad time: everyone was talking about Palin. This week is out: everyone's talking about the financial crisis. It's a big, resonating issue and I'm sure they want everyone to clearly hear that GONG.
September 19, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Elizabeth, I think the ads have been dumb or at least without the necessary guy impact. And I wonder who's in charge over there for media. I've yet to see a really memorable ad from Obama. Not good enough in my opinion.
I think one can argue timing, especially in this economic crisis, but not the effectiveness of Obama's ads, as you pointed out.
If we think the ads are not effective, isn't important that we make this known?
September 20, 2008 9:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely, Cypher! It's been a puzzling weak spot (especially weak with the Spanish-language one that even supporters are saying goes beyond legit -- why bother there's a lot of *legit* negative stuff to say). ----- The very early, positive ones (early primaries) were quite good - at least the one or two shown here in NY. But, as you say, few lately that have had much impact.
(Did like the "Don't know much about e-con-o-my....." one however - and, as mentioned, the twin "wolves" was, I thought, a gem. Both, interestingly, pound away at the Bush-and-McCain-are-the-same theme.)
September 20, 2008 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks to you all you folks for expressing an opinion. Thanks Quinn.
I'm ending this with Billy Glad's words from above:
"We have to find a way to put this bail out in the context of our programs. It's time that people understood that kids are going to go without healthcare while the greedy bastards who brought the financial system down are walking away with millions of dollars."
September 19, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Having seen some of the most beloved people in my life go through this meat-grinder, all I can say is, "Word."
I know I'm not alone.
September 20, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I saw Obama speak Thursday. He did talk about health care for all and emphasised it would help small businesses grow. I think McCain is responding to Obama in his usual manner of conjuring up a sound bite to obscure his lack of any real solution. Also Obama spoke about the complexity of the mess the Bush crew has left us with and how it will require a mobilization of all Americans to cope with it. The McCain sound bites and talking points are always too little too late and can not begin to address this horrendous reality.
McCain's past actions are the best indication of his future intentions.
September 20, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink