Offended and Demand Action
Dear TPM Management,
There have been posts here with the "fake pregnancy" claim. I cannot imagine that any true Democrats would make them. I assume, it is the only reasonable assumption, that they are sabotage from right wing trolls.
Please hunt out these posts and ban the posters.
Thank you.
There have been posts here with the "fake pregnancy" claim. I cannot imagine that any true Democrats would make them. I assume, it is the only reasonable assumption, that they are sabotage from right wing trolls.
Please hunt out these posts and ban the posters.
Thank you.
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I thoroughly disagree, and would like a clearer explanation of why you're calling for banning people.
September 1, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Character assassination is out of bounds and makes us look as creepy as republicans.
September 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The republicans are happy to fuel these rumors, and I have little doubt they're partially, if not directly, responsible for starting these things to make the left look creepy.
http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128478.html
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/goldfarb-doesnt.html
September 1, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
They were started by ArcXIX on DailyKos.
September 1, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who yipped them off.
September 1, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that those flogging the fake pregnancy and the broken water stories are beneath contempt, but censorship is a very slippery slope.
The better approach, I think, is to flog them back for the dip shits they are.
September 1, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
TPM has banned folks in the past, so this is not an advocacy of a new practice.
As to censorship, that would be a government program that prevented folks from access to the media. This site can reasonably exclude folks who have access to the media through other means (such as establishing their own websites).
When someone posts something on this website that brings discredit to everyone else who posts here, it is not unreasonable for the management to exclude them.
September 1, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
How exactly does some other clown repeating nonsense discredit me? How does it discredit you?
September 1, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are joking right? You are known by the company you keep.
September 1, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is the Recommended Posts function that Josh Marshall put in here a while back. It can easily be abused by a group of viral meme pushers.
This other poster, fname, gets it:
TPM needs a bury function
Whether or not it was a case of "GOP trolls" this time, it was naive of him to install such a function with an election going on, without having a mechanism to counteract it.
September 1, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree whole-heartedly that this is bad news. I wouldn't call for any bans yet.
September 1, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
wow, amazing how we all fall in line when it is time to kiss the other side's hiney, but we have never shown such respect for one of our own...we tear him down as much as the other side...michelle has been ripped apart, no such cries of outrage from anyone.....obama has been ripped to shreds, no such cries of outrage from anyone....
please tell me what makes you qualified to ask for the banning of someone? i am offended and ask that you are banned for attempting to quelch the my first amendment right....
sarah palin is a disaster....her pregnancy story has holes in it...i agree we shouldn't pursue it...alaskans questioned her and they know her.....a liberal blogger just repeated it...if that offends you, stop reading.....besides, obama himself said that the story was off limits for himself and anyone in his campaign...that's great...we expect the high road from a leader such as obama, but my dear you cannot tell me or anyone else what is appropriate to discuss, especially since it is fair game in the MSM at large....
get a grip and for the cronies who rushed to agree with you, they are wussies...a characteristic that has dogged dems forever! i am sure the republicans are going to cook up another lie about obama and i will watch you fakes carefully to see how quickly you rush to his defense....once your testicles reduce their swelling, i am sure you will see why palin's potential lies are scary....she is neck deep in a whole pile of hot manure and this is just one more stain....
poor bristol..she didn't deserve this...thank mccain for his greed! do not dare suggest someone here is somehow to blame for this trailer trashish scandal....note i said ISH at the end....
September 1, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
forget the pregnancy thing and move on to why she when she is going to take direct questions from the press.
They should ask Sarah Palin questions directly from the test to become a US Citizen. Ask her geography questions. Ask her constitutional and law questions. Ask her to name 5 world leaders and which country they are from. Ask her to name 3 former Soviet Republics. Ask her what year the Berlin Wall came down. Ask her to name 3 or more eastern block countries the soviets invaded. Ask her the year and the purpose of the Berlin Air Lift. Ask her which countries participated in the Russo-Japanese and the Sino-Japanese wars. Who is Sun Yat Sen? Paul Pot? Ho Chi Min. Che Guevara? Lafayette, Rousseau, what was the enlightenment? The Magna Carta? Hey Sarah, what is the 19th Amendment? The Marshall Plan?
How many of these questions do you think she will answer correctly? I guarantee you that Obama and Biden can answer 100%. The press needs to vet her historical knowledge and we the people have the right to know.
September 1, 2008 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Splendid. Brilliant. I agree completely. And if you asked GWB those same questions he would have trouble also.
Pol Pot..
Ask also the 14th amendment. What were the Nuremburg trials, Kristalnacht, the underground railroad. Who was Rosa Parks, Lester Maddox, Tecumsah, and so forth and so on.
Maybe she would do well, but I somehow I doubt it.
September 2, 2008 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, you're tough. I made a joke in the real world that they should ask her to find D.C. on the map.
September 2, 2008 3:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, the rumors about her (Sarah's) pregnancy have been circulating up in Alaska since April. I have family in Wasilla. It is unfortunate that due to woefully incompetent vetting and ambition that a young woman is being pulled through the mud. I am sure that every candidate has things in their background that can be devestating or no big deal depending on how they are packaged and explained. Because of McCain's rash decision-making process, there was apparently no time to do it properly. If they had come out and said initially that they were the proud parents of five children, one young man going to Iraq this fall, one young woman who is pregnant with their first grandchild that they are SOOO excited about and the youngest blessing from God. (I have a special needs son who is 20 now and he is the best thing that has ever happened to me.) So the problem is not the young woman's pregnancy or the rumors about Sarah's pregnancy -- both of which became more than they should have because of an effort to cover them up. The issue is McCain's behavior, decision making and judgement.
September 2, 2008 1:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look, I posted one of those diaries, and I am NOT a "GOP troll." I don't deserve to be banned. I posted it way before I knew this was going to be a big deal, and the reason I did so was because 10 minutes on google on Friday night lead me to some really uncomfortable questions about Palin's judgment, and by extension, McCain's judgment in selecting her. I hadn't seen the diary at dKos or anything, just a few picks and some random message boards that referenced Bristol's pregnancy, plus the articles about Palin's. It wasn't hard to put two and two together to get five, which apparently was what a bunch of other people were doing simultaneously. In light of today's revelation, it's obvious that two instances of "bad judgment" on Palin's part got rolled into one speculative conclusion (e.g., Bristol is really Trig's mother). As it turns out, it is true that Bristol was/is pregnant. And while Palin apparently wasn't "covering it up" by claiming Trig as her own, it is also true that she did act in an extremely odd fashion - and, in my opinion, showed exceptionally poor judgment - by making the flight from Texas to Alaska after her water broke. So while the "Trig is really Bristol's baby" rumor proved unfounded (because the two aspects of the story did not add up to one story), it wasn't like there was no story there. And in many ways, the "rumored" story would have been almost more tenable that the sum of the "true" parts, as subsequently presented.
While I realize that in most cases, the private lives of politicians should be allowed to remain private, I feel differently about this. I felt strongly enough to post a diary not because I'm a troll, but because I am a feminist, and a mother of a special needs child. I became pregnant "out-of-wedlock" myself, and chose to have my child. But I am fervently pro-choice, and I do not believe that Governor Palin should be allowed to score political points on the back of her and her family's "choices" while advocating for the restriction of everyone else's right to choose. There's more at stake here than just their privacy. All of our privacy rights are at play. And I'm sorry, but that matters to me.
If I offended, I'm sorry. But I'm not a troll. And I don't deserve to be banned just because you don't like what I care about. Don't rec the posts. Frankly, I was surprised that my post made the list (I didn't even "rec" it myself, fwiw). And yes, I agree that a "bury this" or "unrecommend" would be good, because that would make for much better posts in the "rec" list, in general. But you have to figure, if a post can make the list around here with 10 or so "recs," the impact of our postings prolly ain't all that...
September 2, 2008 2:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, then it is fair at least to say you care about stupid shit.
September 2, 2008 7:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I cannot recall one single post that I read that in any way AT ALL went after the family. You know, if you are going to make accusations, back them up.
My blood pressure is through the roof about CNN. Apparently, they decided to check out the story, and sent people to Alaska to investigate it. Well, it looks to me that if it's not in a scripted press release, they don't considerate it news, because from what I can tell, after the McCain camPain issued there official statement, they called off the hounds.
They whole baby story should be addressed. If you can find one Ob/Gyn who could find a shred of justification for the Texas/Alaska trip, bring it.
Today's news just made the story weirder.
The timing is too perfect. She's exactly pregnant enough that she can't be Trig's mother, and would give birth after the election, so if it's a sham story, we won't know at a time that it matters.
Most importantly, between Friday and Monday, the only thing that happens is that people are blogging, which might have never hit the MSM, until she validated it.
The Trig story did not revolve around Bristol - so what does her mother do? To stop the rumors about herself, she tells everyone her daughter is pregnant. WHAT? How could she? You have to know that the story her mother is now telling is going to inspire some yahoo to get pictures of a pregnant Bristol.
And if her goal was to prove that Trig was her's {Sara's), she could have proved just that, instead of serving red herring - at her daughter's expense!
Are you getting this? She did not have to reveal this about her daughter, but she gave us information we did not need to save her own skin.
Okay, maybe I am alone in this. But if it was me, and people thought my son was my grandson, I would prove he was my son - medical records, birth certificate, what ever it took. NOT tell the world my 17 year old is pregnant. And I am sick that there are people who think what I am doing right this second is the low road! ACCKK!
September 2, 2008 3:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then stop doing it.
September 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
GOP trolls are the kind of people who ban other people for talking. TPMers are much more likely to beleive there's no such thing as an idea too dangerous to talk about.
i'm that this is on the rec list over my last post (and many others more deserving.) But I am not calling for an investigation into the propriety of these recs.
Etc Etc
September 2, 2008 3:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
I got so worked up, I forgot something (and missed a few ugly errors).
Look, I just don't agree, and this again has nothing to do with her daughter, that whether a person lies or tells the truth is something I have no right to know. I don't say she is a bad mother because her daughter got pregnant, I am only saying we have had enough lies, and I have had my fill.
The thing I forgot, which only matters in light of today's news, is that I would not have my pregnant daughter carry the extra pounds of my baby on her own baby bump. But maybe that's just me.
September 2, 2008 3:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a bunch of tripe. Are you really so afraid of your shadow that you won't explore an anomalous set of circumstances because it might offend someone who has thrust herself into the public light?
The fact is that everyone in Alaska was stunned when Palin announced her pregnancy. The fact is that the the birth of her child is inexplicably shrouded in mystery. The fact is that the "evidence" such as it is went missing after questions were raised. The fact is that Palin could conclusively answer these questions in 5 minutes, but she hasn't.
So does it matter? Would it reflect on Palin's fitness for the job if she lied her constituents in Alaska about having a child and then lied to the American people when she was nominated? Maybe not in your universe, but it sure as hell matters in mine. I am sick of leaders who lie, and I think that perpetrating a fraud on that scale is a disqualifier. Then again, if pointing it out would hurt someone's feelings, maybe we should just drop the whole thing and hope that it is a just an aberration. The world may go to hell in a hand basket, but you can take comfort in knowing that you took the high road.
Never thought I would see a TPM member try to ban another. Sick.
September 2, 2008 5:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I completely disagree that anyone should be banned for talking about this story. Its significance lies in the fact that McCain clearly did no vetting whatsoever before announcing this woman as his VP pick. This is frightening beyond belief. We do not need another president who makes rash, disastrous decisions without thinking. It is also significant because it highlights the hypocrisy of the anti-choice crowd. That said, I think it is far more important that Palin is under investigation for abuse of power (another thing we need no more of) and her whole "maverick" story is a joke - sound familiar? She got her start running a 527 for Ted Stevens, the indicted Alaska senator. If McCain picked a name out of a hat he could not have made a worse choice - scary.
September 2, 2008 5:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the community here is more than capable of handling a few errant posts like you're describing. There's no reason to ban people from saying outlandish things, especially if they can be persuaded by the community to give up fantastic claims and character assassinations in favor of better, more enduring arguments against McCain and Palin.
September 2, 2008 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter who started talking about what may or may not have been a rumor. This has been in the Northwest blogs for months and it still ain't over. There's this current fiance Levi, and another boy Chris Ray involved--oooh baby it's a doosey. Northern lights!
September 2, 2008 7:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
lol...this is getting better and better and i do mean in the worst possible of ways....who the heck is chris ray? i am trying really hard to take the high road here, but if the tables were turned, all of us would have wanted to know the truth..if this scandal involved obama, the supporters, TPM, MSM, the other side, every cat, dog and mouse would be scrambling to get to the bottom of the truth; not to mention the fact that obama would have had to go door to door to apologize for every living thing...
why are we so afraid of this story? it originated in palin's hometown and after hearing this tall tale, i am still mystified and left with more questions than the lord allows...on a personal level, it is not any of our business, but on a political front, it may prove that we are dealing with another liar who is this close to being our VP....and it goes straight to mccain's lack of judgement in neglecting to properly vet her for this high-level position....if you cannot understand this, then no wonder we,meaning Dems lose elections year after year....the high road is not always the right road to take....in this instance, i say this story needs to be beaten to death..so long as it is not obama and his team making the case for it....
if we don't probe, then who the heck will? do you think the republicans want their dirty laundry aired? heck, MSM ignored it until they had no other choice...wake up...we are in this bid to win the Whitehouse back all by ourselves....if it stinks, we have to call it B.S.
September 2, 2008 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a couple of interesting (if not silly) bloggers...but they are flat serious about these accusations, even have a pic of what Sarah looked like at around 7 mos in one of her previous pregnancies:
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3422
http://cajunboy.tumblr.com/
September 2, 2008 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
And you flog that crap here? Why? Because it's "interesting?" Oh, please.
September 2, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
". . . once your testicles reduce their swelling, . . . ."
It's okay to be sexist -- but only if one is female.
Correct, "cher"?
September 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Telling the truth IS the high road, even or even especially when it is told against lies and liars.
The low road is lying, and character assassination based upon made up garbage. But where there is substance, seeking the truth is noble. It is essential. Truth is more important than "reputation" for having "character" and all that other superficial McSamehorsehockeymomism.
September 2, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink