On Religion.....Or, well, just about anything, really
I believe in an inherent goodness. I believe that everything, if left alone, will work towards doing good, being good, doing its work happily.
Take the spider. You knock down its web, and it doesn't hold a grudge. It just rebuilds.
Always reminds me of the joke about the snail. But I'll leave that for another day.
I don't adhere to any one religion, but I love what their good points are. Be good to oneself. Be good to others. Don't hurt anything if you can help it. Help one another. Love one another.
All the rest, well....it's just bullshit.
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Amen...
October 11, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now, how did I know beforehand that you'd be the first to respond, heh?
October 11, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
'cuz you know I stalk you!
October 11, 2008 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you are good, you are in the minority.
Never let your guard down, There are many who would devour the meek.
Goodness is a gift, that many do not have.
The moral compass is absent in many.
The moral compass is conscience.
Like a compass it can be influenced
If unduly influenced by selfish desires, our conscience may point us in the wrong direction.
If it is used without the sure guidance of God's Word, or direction, we may not be able to distinguish between right and wrong in many important matters.
October 11, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The Weak Shall Perish" - Species 8472
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_8472
October 11, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who's "we"?
October 11, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
The WE are those who are humble and have humility, they are courteous, as opposed to those who are haughty, and self assuming their own greatness.
Drive in a major city and tell me about the goodness of many. Obscene gesturing, road rage, selfish and I could name other behaviors not considered goodness.
Rampant greed due to selfish desires.
What happened, I guess it's not inherent?
October 11, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, honey. You need to stay home more often.
October 11, 2008 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
No need to stay home. I already know that the majority of people are not, inherently good.
So I remain vigilant, making sure that my association with other people, is with those who understand the wisdom that comes from reading the Bible and finding others who love the counsel, they get from it's pages.
Associating with those who truly apply it in their daily lives, as opposed to following those, just winging it. It is a safeguard for me.
October 11, 2008 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, enjoy your safeguard.
October 11, 2008 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Depends on which God's word you're listening to, doesn't it?
October 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your right, which God should you listen to, thats an individual decision.
But I'll be able to tell from their fruitage of displayed goodness, if their dispayed goodness is trustworthy and dependable, and not Wolves in sheeps clothing.
October 11, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you do me a favor?
Can you refrain from soundish asswole-ish in here?
Cuz I don't get assholeish religious stuff.
Thanks.
October 11, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, your post brought on temporary "numb fingaz".
Can you stop sound asshole-ish, is what I meant to say.
This post is obviously reserved for druids.
October 11, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
*sounding
Lord Almighty.....I'm being struck down by lightning, slowly, finger by finger....
....Brain cell, by brain cell......
October 11, 2008 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give it a break then about your goodness, because the fruitage has just reared up and it isn't really goodness after all. just more What did you call it BS
October 11, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance, stop being deliberately obtuse. It's irritating.
I'm certain you understand that the point Lis is making is that humanity is essentially good. You're perfectly within your rights to disagree. I believe Lis is just asking you to do it in a more respectful and less "assholish" way.
Being good does not always mean turning the other cheek. Sometimes, being good means standing up to schoolyard bullies.
Lis is as good as they come. So, if you want to participate in the discussion in a meaningful way, please do so. If not, please go peddle your crap elsewhere.
October 11, 2008 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have no doubt Lis is as good as many, but the moment it turned into asshole and now your comment of rudeness, your probably correct this is not where I want to be.
It would have been sufficient to have explained that this site, as druid. not if it sounds like an asw**le it usually is.
Differing opinions are not welcome here, sorry for interupting the mutual admiration society.
So we'll both rebuild, and who knows we probably have some common ground, just not this topic that I will always defend.
Sorry Lis
October 11, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now it's my turn to be obtuse, but not deliberately. If find your response absolutely unintelligible.
Also, just a friendly grammar point:
Your = possessive, as in your house, your car, your opinion
You're = contraction of you are, as in "you're probably correct..."
October 11, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. One thing I did understand about your response: you went from bully to victim in a flash. Impressive.
October 11, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You like that, it works for me.
October 11, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a problem with my writing skills, my wife is always helping me with punctuation.
She tells others that I always have the longest sentences.
So go ahead, I'll probably make the same mistake again anyway.
A lot of times my spell checker doesn't work, or it allows the word your.
October 11, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll give it a break only after you give it a break first.
October 11, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yum! Did someone say breakfast! I'll have an omelette!
October 12, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shhh! Be careful about mentioning stuff that requires the breaking of eggs. Bwakfat is sensitive!
I know! I'll cook you some eggless pancakes! Gingerbread pancakes! Mmmmm....
October 12, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Laura.
I do tend to get my feathers ruffled.
October 12, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
And do you set yourself as a fit judge? Somehow, that doesn't strike me as 'humble.'
Perhaps try 'walking the walk.'
Just a suggestion, of course. You come off like some repressed homosexual full of self-hatred. I doubt you would find very many Carrie Nations among the populace. You might get the ear of regular, GOOD folk, for a few moments.
The majority of folks is good, indeed, and perhaps you are just far too 'haughty" to see it.
October 11, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhh heck, I gotta amend that. It was too mean. Shucks, I'm sorry about that.
I did have a boss that was indeed a repressed homosexual and he was really nasty 'til he came out of the closet. Randy old bastard, but whatever.
What you really remind me of is a reformed smoker, as opposed to a former smoker. Keep breathing dude. The least of us is as important as you are to your God... Think NT rather than OT. We humans is larnin' and we've evolved. We do that. It's good, for the most part.
God gave you a brain. Use it.
October 12, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm, "Benevolent Entropy"
I believe it takes a lot of work to make things good, but it is worth the effort.
October 11, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm right there with ya, Donal.
October 11, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
So true!
Rec.
October 11, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I always wondered where God got the idea of Good. Or rather, why is God Good? (Not to mention why he likes to wait and see if it happens. Guess it's like rooting for the Cubs.)
"Good" is suspiciously similar to the social choices that maximize the health of the group.
October 11, 2008 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've always had a theory....don't laugh....
All of us were just existing here on Earth once. Happy. Peaceful. The dinosaurs were gone by then, or course. That's why we were happy and peaceful.
And then something landed, or crashed, on or into our planet, depending on your outlook, and after that, we all got minds.
And we didn't know what to do with them.
And....we STILL don't.
That's my theory, and I'm stickin' to it.
October 11, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
*of, dammit
October 11, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
See how they work, sublimannaly?
October 11, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reasonable.
Wouldja like to teach the world to sing? In perfect harmony?
October 11, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to give you a Coke.
October 11, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd rather have a lychee martini.
October 11, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd rather learn how to spell.
October 12, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to give the world a thought
in perfect harmony
That whatever end we seek
we all meet it peacefully
There. How's that?
October 11, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant. And GOOD!
October 11, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
May I introduce you to Secular Humanism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
October 11, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
After having some guys in suits knock on my door a few years ago, I'd rather not be introduced to anything new, thanks.
October 12, 2008 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I'd rather not be introduced to anything new." (?)
Now that's an open mind! heheh...
October 12, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd reckon, not. But it sure is something that is appropriate to bring up.
(Sorry son, it's just amusing that you's think this bunch is unaware of secular humanism--we're LIBERALS.)
October 12, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Son?
Well, old man, while you appear to like assumptions and stereotypes, I prefer to keep my head out of my ass.
October 12, 2008 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, that would be twice in a row that you bent over, dear.
Chickens are, invariably, female.
October 12, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Invariably? Heh.
A chicken is a domesticated fowl. A male chicken is called a rooster or maybe a cock. A female chicken is a hen.
October 12, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/10/tryinghard.php
October 12, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Getting along.....all of us getting along....
Getting by.
It will become important, and there's a good life lesson here.
Why hate?
It gets us nowhere, and we all need each other now. If you're gonna hate over God, well, that's just silly. Hate each other over food and rent and money, instead. It's so much more fun.
October 12, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Or better yet, why hate at all?
October 12, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Why hate?" Indeed.
Nice post, Lis. Thanks.
One of the themes present in all religions is the call for us to recognize humanity in each other. Empathy. It's something that permits us to communicate more effectively, tolerate each other, value each others' lives.
Notice, too, that employing empathy seems to require a humbling of the self, and allows us to recognize the value of others' needs.
We need occasional reminders to draw upon our better natures. Thanks for reminding us to do that.
October 12, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, this thread got a little weird while I was gone...In fact most of them tonight are...must be something in the air!
October 12, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Love is in the air. Only, some can't see it.
October 12, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Forgiveness is love, do you forgive me Lis?
October 12, 2008 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course.
October 12, 2008 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cuz that is what it comes down to. Toloerance.
Love. Belief.
Those who are filled with hatred don't know the meanings of those words anymore.
More's the pity.
October 12, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you, LisB.
I don't think most people are without compassion or that most people don't actually want to be good - I think they do.
And I really shouldn't. I should be the world's biggest cynic - cause I defended the worst of us and I know what we're capable of and it's bad. But I don't think that is really where most of us want to go.
And oddly enough, for the stone killers and the outright mean people I did run into - I kept running into people who really weren't. I kept running into people who actually touched me.
I believe in our ability to transcend ourselves cause I've the seen the proof. And even though we can be evil, the transcendence we're capable of makes us worthwhile and makes it worthwhile to keep trying.
October 12, 2008 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. We all really do want what's good.
We really do.
October 12, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
And tolerance is spelled "tolerance".
When I's can spell it. Heh.
October 12, 2008 1:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like tolerance: The Sincere recognition of the rights of others.
October 12, 2008 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes
October 12, 2008 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
But without any Caps.
October 12, 2008 1:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
well said...i think bill hicks and george carlin would be proud
October 12, 2008 4:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Last thought tonight: I would love to hate money. I really would. I think it caused all the evil shit that's caused all the evil shit in this world.
But I can't really live without it.
More's the pity. I'd much rather give it the finger at every opportunity, but I need it. I need it to live here in my apartment. I need it to get to work, where I go to get more money. Life's weirdest and corniest conundrum.
I want love. And intelligence. None of my past romantic relationships provided both. That's why I went solo.
I want an intelligent President. I don't care about his religion, nor his friends. I just want him to be intelligent.
It doesn't hurt if I love what the man says, though.
October 12, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
And it doesn't hurt to want intelligence.
Unless, of course, you don't vote for it this year.
That -- well, that will hurt.
Big time.
October 12, 2008 1:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're special, Lis.
October 12, 2008 3:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you for the most part. I guess I would add that I believe we have the capacity for goodness and greatness... we also have flaws and often learned behavior that with stress can bring out our lower character especially if we are attached to certain beliefs and they are challenged.
Another point I would make because you expressed a boundary with a commenter here is that goodness, from my perspective, does not mean 'without boundaries or distinctions'. Goodness, for me, is not exclusive to being 'meek' as some have suggested here.
Sometimes goodness is violently knocking the poison out of someone's hand to save their life.
Reading your post and the comments that followed reminded me of a poem I read once... can't remember who wrote it...
"Two men looked out from prison bars. One saw mud and the other saw stars"
A related story:
I remember recently visiting the Chicago area where I was born and raised. I was shopping in a grocery store where I observed that people were open and loving... willing to look me in the eyes and smile. I got in line to check out. I was the third person back from the cashier. A man was checking out that didn't have one of those discount card thingies. I was from out of town so I didn't have one for that store. He was getting angry because he was trying to by something in bulk and he needed the discount and the cashier was insisting she couldn't 'do anything' about it. So I started turning to people and asking if they had a card... not the person in front of me or behind me. So I started asking down the rows of people and found a man who had one on his keys and he let me borrow them to help this man check out. Problem solved.
My point is that in this situation some were focused on the problem and others were focused on finding a solution and it altered their experience.
October 12, 2008 4:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
>Sometimes goodness is violently knocking the poison out of someone's hand to save their life.
Being meek does not mean being without strength. It can mean knowing the difference between knocking the poison out of their hand and knocking them out to take the poison. Harm versus help. Goodness teaches to open the hand and expose the palm. A stinging slap may follow that causes the hand to close - but not to become a fist.
You're spot-on. The problem may seem on the surface to require a fist, yet is better served by finding a use for the hand.
October 12, 2008 4:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
LisB, I love the spider analogy.
We have some cool spiders in central Florida with interesting spotted designs on their exoskeletons. (Apologies to biologists.)
One built a glorious web the other day that extended from a bush and telephone cable on one side of my back door to a bush on the other side. I usually duck under it when I let the dogs out. However, several times I've forgotten and crashed through it.
Mme. Spider has since relocated the left side of her web to a a rosemary bush out of the way of the door. I watched her eating a bug last night. It was at once creepy and fascinating.
Adapt, change what you can, and get on with it.
October 12, 2008 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Those "good points" are ethics and morals that are evolved traits in human beings. Religion did not create them. In fact I think Arthur C. Clarke said it best... "The greatest tragedy to befall mankind was the hijacking of morality by religion."
But I am, of course, in agreement with the overall sentiment of your post. ;^}
October 12, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point.
It bothers me when people embrace the idea that one must acknowledge and obey a religion in order to be moral. It's demonstrably not true -- some of the most conscientiously moral people I've ever known have been non-religious.
October 12, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
laurajordan wrote It bothers me when people embrace the idea that one must acknowledge and obey a religion in order to be moral.
I agree going to a church, or having a form of godly devotion doesn’t make one righteous. Especially going to a church that does not promote tolerance, or fleeces the flock.
(2 Timothy 3:1-7) 3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,
5 HAVING A FORM OF GODLY DEVOTION BUT PROVING FALSE to its power; and from these turn away. 6
7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
laurajordan wrote It's demonstrably not true -- some of the most conscientiously moral people I've ever known have been non-religious.
YOU'RE statement is true
(Romans 2:13-15) 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused. . 16 This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.
The only thing I would add. All of you have expressed, and we all want to be treated with kindness as we treat others, as we would want to be.
I though, try to do those things that should be done, and by doing so reach out for the reward, for those who seek to do his will.
Whereas; those who know that doing the right thing promotes a better society. Right!
That’s what the Creator has said all along. In the end the rewarder either knows you sought his wisdom out or you ignored his other laws.
IT”S all about the reward. And how to get it
October 12, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I made that point just yesterday at dagblog.
October 12, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then again ...
[In response to the religion and BS part. FWIW I myself am now a non-believer. So I'm not looking for an argument. I just find Fasolt very interesting.]
October 12, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I honor anyone who sincerely follows their faith or sincerely follows good principles they chose for themselves. Sincerity and honesty are the keys, I think. Humility and respect for others' sincerely-chosen paths are also important.
October 12, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
A chicken is a domesticated fowl. A male chicken is called a rooster or maybe a cock. A female chicken is a hen.
October 12, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
damn! meant for bwakfat above.
October 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I cry fowl
October 12, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink