Gaming the System
Hey everyone,
You may have noticed that a post by thecleverbulldog has been at the top of the All Reader Posts page for a while. This is because he backdated the post until tonight at 9:59 p.m. In other words, in order to stay the most "current" post, he set the publish date to the future in order to stay the newest all day.
I have unpublished the post, but in the future, we will delete posts who take advantage of the new date-manipulation privileges. Please don't abuse these new features, or your posts will be deleted, and you will be banned from the site.
This may have been a careless mistake on the part of thecleverbulldog, so they can republish the post with the correct timestamp if they wish. But in the future, we will be deleting these posts when we see them
Thanks, Al
You may have noticed that a post by thecleverbulldog has been at the top of the All Reader Posts page for a while. This is because he backdated the post until tonight at 9:59 p.m. In other words, in order to stay the most "current" post, he set the publish date to the future in order to stay the newest all day.
I have unpublished the post, but in the future, we will delete posts who take advantage of the new date-manipulation privileges. Please don't abuse these new features, or your posts will be deleted, and you will be banned from the site.
This may have been a careless mistake on the part of thecleverbulldog, so they can republish the post with the correct timestamp if they wish. But in the future, we will be deleting these posts when we see them
Thanks, Al
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Hey, Bulldog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGrEZH7j1bQ
October 14, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Al, how did David Seaton get 2 posts into the rec list with zero recs? I see they're gone now.
October 14, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have fixed the rec lists. Let me know if you're still seeing weirdness.
October 14, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks!
October 14, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why let users manipulate publishing schedule at all? The edit/preview/rich text is great, but the publishing features probably suck ... now LaRouche can pre-spam for an entire year.
It's also kind of weird that people can just make their stuff disappear now. A big part of how to tell if someone is credible is to look at their past contributions. Now people can just change history if it suits the argument of the day.
Also, all reader posts should accept comments.
my2cents.
October 14, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
What if he just changed his computer's date? To be fair, I've seen a lot of people with computer clocks that are off by AM/PM or even full days.
I do like being able to delete multiple posts. Is there a permanent archive?
I'd say any post that denies comments should deny recs.
October 14, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, as I said, it may have been a careless mistake. That's why I unpublished the entry rather than deleting it. He can republish with the right date if he wants.
There is a permanent archive of whatever you post-- but if you delete something, it will be purged forever.
October 14, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
"There is a permanent archive of whatever you post-- but if you delete something, it will be purged forever."
Am I back in Sunday school?
October 14, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Al,
Can't tell you how refreshing it is to see someone in management paying enough attention to catch something like that. It gives me *hope* for the future of TPM. :-)
Now for the things that temper my hope. :-(
I hope you you are temporarily holding back on the posting of people's comments on their profile because of the transition process, because I'm not seeing many of them post there, and yet they do seem to register on Dashboard? Can we expect the individual comments lists to be working better in the future?
And why can't I get "Following" to work on Billy Glad's Blog?
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/billy_glad/
Is there another "gaming the system" thing going on?
October 14, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
new comments going forward should show up under the comments tab of profiles, and we're working to restore old comments there today.
October 14, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, not true for several users I have looked at, including me.
I see that your comment above showed up right away on both my dashboard and your comments list, but mine is not on my comments list. My own comments list is stuck on only two that I made yesterday,
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/artappraiser/comments.php
and I have made many more since then, hasn't been updated at all. And it has the incorrect time on those comments. They were made early yesterday afternoon, I think.
And several people I have been following seem to have the exact same thing going on, their comments register on my dashboard, but they are not on their comments list. Some user's comments list seem to be "stuck," including mine.
October 14, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see comments there from an hour ago. Are you not seeing those?
October 14, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I respond to this on the other thread, I was taken to artappraiser's My TPM (beta) Blog page, and I could click on the Comments tab and see his long list of comments.
And then my session expired. .
October 14, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Serendipity or some little elf, I dunno, but now happy. I double checked right before I made that blog post, still had the problem. After the blog post, all my comments are there.
I did have the problem until like now. Since you're not willing to take the credit, it must be one of those internet miracles. :-)
October 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Al, other people ARE still having the problem, see the reports in comments on my blog entry on it:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/artappraiser/2008/10/my-comments-are-not-registerin.php
October 14, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see the problems.. looking into it. Thanks.
October 14, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Al, sorry to seem like piling on, but:
For me the "Dashboard" is useless. I have a long list of my own comments and recommends and blogs. Fine, but seems repetitious. No images appear on the dashboard page. I do not get the "myTPM" art. I get the list of the "most followed" (don't need that, would prefer a list of who I actually follow.) Shouldn't the dashboard be more controls to get you to where you want to go quickly, not a page of lists? Should the dashboard be either your "personal front page" from which you can get to the TPM pages and blog pages? Or should you combine "my blog" and "myTPM" into one page with the info from both? (just asking...) Maybe that's where you're going with this, but for now... not so much...
I get the login to comment problem too... had to log in to comment here, although I was already logged in. Duplicate comments still happening.
Blogging is okay, but MT page performance "erratic"; sometimes the buttons for "home" and "the last button in the line" do not work as expected ... "page not found" errors. (and shouldn't those buttons be labeled? Just a UI nitpicky thing.) MT "Widgets" don't work. Should users download MT and Menus with options disabled. Documentation is not helpful. Users, like Dijamo and TheraP, should not be writing the documentation for you (but thank goodness that they have for the rest of us).
I know you guys are trying, but from this end it is frustrating.
and by the by, this from an XP and IE7 user... nothing fancy on my end...
October 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jade, I couldn't get the right side of my dashboard to show up yesterday. I cleared my cache and deleted my cookies and now I'm good.
October 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
one more thing. I clicked the "Follow Al Shaw" button. Returning to my dashboard, I find that now I am "stalking" Al Shaw. I see everything you're doing. That's not really useful to me. can I just look to see when you've written a new post? I don't need to know who you are following, like Adrienne...
I'm going to unstalk you, no hard feelings, okay? I'll just check back here in a bit to see if you replied. Thanks, Al.
October 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jade, the point of the dashboard is to choose a bunch of people to follow and see all their activities.
Until you choose someone, it has just yours as the default. Once you choose more people, it will have theirs.
In terms of them writing the document, the "how to use myTPM" document is right here. It's linked to on every myTPM page.
We're sorry we don't have a more detailed instructions list and we're glad the community is helping us to build it, I hope you'll be patient and work with us to get this right.
We appreciate the feedback.
October 14, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the replies.
Just to make sure I hadn't missed anything, I rechecked the "documentation." I hadn't. What you have provided is an overview. As a former instructional designer responsible for training materials and end-user documentation, I have to say, that isn't it.
For example, the suggestion from Orlando to clear cookies and cache should be documented. It is something every existing user from the "old" TPM should be instructed to do. The tips and tricks from Dijamo and TheraP and others should be compiled in step-by-step documentation. (Note: complete documentation saves you guys and gals the headache answering questions again and again that most users could and would find on their own if the information was available.)
I'll repeat my critique of the dashboard. It could be far more useful. It is more like stalking rather than following. If a person chooses to not follow anyone, the default should not be that they end up following themselves. Nor should they get every step anyone they choose to follow does. Do I really need to know that someone I am following is following someone else? Do I need to know that they are following each other if I am following each of them?
As I suggested, give a dashboard that can be my "myTPM" homepage. Include the top headlines from each of the other TPM sections, and whichever pictures you have on the front page. Give me the top recommended reader posts and a link to all reader posts. Then, if I am following other writers/readers just the pic and headline of their latest posts, otherwise leave that section blank; I don't need to follow me. Let me personalize my page a bit, give my blog a title. Give me some buttons to get to my blog, my profile, Help, Email, etc. Make the Movable Type blog page look like the TPM pages. The layout from page to page -- and the buttons and their operation -- must be consistent.
Let me suggest you guys go take a look at Newsvine. I have to give their user interface very good marks.
thanks again...
October 14, 2008 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
For me the "Dashboard" is useless. I have a long list of my own comments and recommends and blogs. Fine, but seems repetitious
Just want to say I disagree, so that management doesn't judge the reception on the complaints alone.
I like it, it's the best possible thing they could have done with the system they have and the large audience they have to help users filter the site according to their own tastes.
I've always surfed forums like this one by user. Just as I have favorite bloggers on the internet that I use to surf on a topic. Before this tool, I was using the cache of urls on my browser's address bar for this site to seek out certain users and what threads they were participating on. Both software versions here before Movable Type let me do it without having to do that. I'm glad there is a similar capability back here now.
Doesn't mean I am a fan of the writing or personality of certain users, means they come here looking for the same kind of stuff I am looking for, what they are finding and what they find interesting helps me find threads and discussions I am interested in and learn from.
I really disliked how in the Movable type software before this upgrade, I got dragged into (granted, through my own lack of discipline,) browsing through what I considered a lot of waste of time posts. This helps me get away from doing that (example, I feel I've spent far too much time reading far too many people's opinions of Sarah Palin, and her personal life, I don't really need to know any more, and I don't want to see more and get angered enough by seeing it to post a comment. Meanwhile, other stuff I want to read lays unread.) Most importantly, it lets the people who like what I don't like do their own thing, too. The Sarah Palin fanatics can all follow each other and not be bothered by me and vice versa.
October 14, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Al, I'm having a couple of issues:
1. when I click the archive link, I get a white screen. I know you're working on stuff, but just in case you weren't aware of that...
2. The stuff on the dashboard seems to be disappearing quickly. Maybe I'm following too many people already, I dunno. But is there a way to see the older stuff, or once it scrolls off the page is it gone?
October 14, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're working on the reader blog archive now. It looks like archives are working on your own blog. The dashboard is a snapshot of what's happening now with people you're following -- there's no archive of this info.
October 14, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
But how can I gain any credibility as a stalker if I can't monitor every move someone makes? :)
October 14, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just gotta be glued to your dashboard 24 hours a day ;)
October 14, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe I'm following too many people already, I dunno.
I'm sorta seeing that is the key, you have to chose carefully. The usefulness as I see it is to be able to surf the site from tastes of people who have similar tastes to you, to be taken to threads that they are interested in and then to read the whole thread and everyone on it, not to follow people like fans. If you use it like a Recommend system, to reward people just because they made a good post, yeah, you might end up with uselessness.
Also, it's probably not good to have people who post a great on your Dashboard followings, unless you really want to see it, because you can see it elsewhere, you're just repeating what's elsewhere, like on current threads on Election Central or Reader Blogs. Example: right now Al Shaw is posting a lot, because he's in charge of the new software, but in the past he hardly posted at all, so if you're "following" him, currently he's hogging your Dashboard, but that probably won't always be the case. In the same way, perhaps it's not a wise choice for most people to put Josh Marshall on "following," cause most days all your going to end up with is a duplicate of the TPM mother page on your Dashboard.
If actually want to see all the comments and posts of a favorite poster, if you suspect they have scrolled off Dashboard already, go to "My Blog" and get to your list of "following" and click on their name.
Like I said in a reply to you on another thread, I don't think of it as stalking. I make it a point to look at what many bloggers on the internet are posting, and I surf from their links to others. That's not stalking. To check on what Matt Yglesias is saying, nor to look at the links he gives, nor to check out his blog roll, that's not stalking. Most people are posting on the internet because they want someone else to read it.
October 14, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
great points, artappraiser. this is what we had in mind when we designed it.
October 14, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correction to my written-too-fast comment, to be clear:
Also, it's probably not good to have people who post a great on your Dashboard followings
should read
Also, it's probably not good to have people who post a great deal on your Dashboard followings
October 14, 2008 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink