Annals Of The Hive 10/13/2008
Race Baiting At Talking Points Memo
Talking Points Memo continues it's race baiting today with an Eric Kleefeld distortion of John McCain's remarks about whipping Obama's you-know-what in the final Presidential debate.
In typical TPM fashion, Kleefeld first headlines his blurb: "McCain: I'm Going To 'Whip' Obama At The Debate," then goes on to deny that he's saying McCain means he's going to whip a black man.
Kleefeld says McCain's remark is just a "painfully awkward and stupid thing to say."
Tell us about it, Eric.
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Thanks for posting this. I'm happy to know that I wasn't the only one who felt this way about the, er, whipping post.
October 13, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
The quote I read didn't say "whip"...
It said "beat him like a drunk Southern widow."
October 13, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We're going to spend a lot of time and after I whip his you-know-what in this debate, we're going to be going out 24/7," McCain said.
Apologies in advance if you were just kidding (if so, I didn't get it, obviously).
October 13, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
If McCain had said he was going to take a switch to his rump, I'd be a lot more worried.
October 13, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to give you a morning laugh.
Busy boy been hittin' the button 6 and 8 times.
Not race-bating, but bunny-bait at least.
October 13, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. All precisely 10 hours ago. Very, very suspicious. I already reported it to TPM, by the way.
October 13, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Busted!
October 13, 2008 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about "For the record, none of us here at TPM think McCain actually intended the potentially-nefarious alternative meaning of whipping Obama" did you not get?
You're making a lot of nothing here. I can tell you from listening to Black AM radio here in Philly that there are people out there that took it that way. While it's pretty apparent that it wasn't intended to be some reference to, well, whipping, it was stupid on two fronts - one, there's no possibility of cooling the expectations from his camp; he's going to have to kick his ass or risk looking foolish; and two, he may be overaggressive on Wednesday in order to cash the check his mouth wrote this weekend.
Oh, and there's a third - don't talk about "whipping" a Black guy in anything if you've been playing to racist fears all week in your rallies! When you have supporters doing things like this, perhaps you should watch the code words, know what I'm sayin'?
October 13, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tried to comment on that one, but kept getting a "waiting for blog owner approval". I imagine I'll be waiting a long time. McCain will no longer be allowed to use the words "whip", "beat", "overcome", "run", "pick", and "South".
October 13, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys should go edit & save your profiles, if you haven't.
As for the post, the whole race-baiting & race-card debate lost me months ago. I see racist stuff I don't like from McCain, stuff that feels deliberately racist, yes. But 1/2 the stuff people at TPM say they see... I just don't. And I think raising it when it's not really apparent actually weakens the term, weakens the criticism.
October 13, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm in the same boat as you, I think. I figured out pretty quick that when everybody hears racism in something and I don't, I should just keep my head down and not say anything, else the pitchforks and torches appear.
October 13, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't access my profile
October 13, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apologies for giving in to a personal peeve, but since we're on a first-name basis may I point out that possessive case for "it" is "its". "It's" is reserved for "It is".
October 13, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't wait for Keith Olbermann's take on this.
October 13, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll bet he makes McCain sound like a kinky old man.
October 13, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't wait for Keith Olbermann's take on this.
October 13, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't wait for Keith Olbermann's take on this.
October 13, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
We can tell. (j/k)
October 13, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I went to go for a walk and nothing had posted. I get back and my comment had posted 3 times. Good to have TPM back!
When is Keith on, btw?
October 13, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Skip the rest of Keith and take in the final segment with Richard Lewis: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#27170563
Classic!
October 13, 2008 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, leave race out of it if you want, but when you've got folks at your own rallies yelling "kill him" using any phraseology suggesting bodily harm is beyond reckless.
October 13, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess "whip him" counts as toning down the rhetoric then.
October 13, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess TPM must be the biggest culprit in pointing out the obvious racism of McCain's campaign - the rabid white-only crowds, "Obama is not like you and me" message, charges of "domestic terrorism", and "hatred of America", you name it.
I guess the only racism McCain/Palin apologists will accept as "real" is McCain calling Obama a "nigger" on national television, with their favorite trusted reporter taking the video and sound. Anything short of that is dismissed as "figment of liberal imagination" and as unwarranted attacks agains the honorable John McCain.
October 13, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
So it's not okay for voters to want a candidate that reflects their views and lifestyle?
October 13, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
It aboslutely is OK for the crypto-white-supremacists at Palin/McCain's rallies to vote for the candidate that reflects their "ideals" and not for "doesn't see America as we do" Obama.
We must aboslutely respect Palin/McCains race-baiting campaign and NEVER comment on the obvious stench of racism and violence at their rallies, least we stand accused of "liberal race-baiting". Taking note of this is verbotten, because this may result in victory "we may not be proud of".
October 13, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I echo Scientific: "don't talk about "whipping" a Black guy in anything if you've been playing to racist fears all week in your rallies!"
I'm an older white woman but I was raised in the South and my *immediate* thought when I heard McCain's comment was "I wish he'd just gone ahead and offended sensibilities by saying 'ass'". By leaving it fill-in-the-blank too many people were going to hear "hide" and instinctively recall all the unsavory images that go with that word. The only *person* I've ever known who had literally been "whipped" was a black sharecropper - even old, faded scars are horrifying.
Do I think it was deliberate on the part of McCain? No. Possibly just another sad example of the 'bad karma' that's been following him around since he selected Palin. (Palin wouldn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, btw.) But McCain is of my generation - he should have known, should have thought.
In truth, I don't believe that McCain has 'played the race card' (to use a phrase I hope I never hear again after Nov. 4th) in this campaign. If he were willing to 'go there' Rev. Wright would have had a lot more play at this stage in the game. And I commend him for not crossing that line. ------- The trouble is that he and his campaign HAVE deliberately "played the other/frightening/unAmerican/suspicious card" that they would play against any relatively unknown liberal Democrat opponent .... but this opponent happens to be a black man.
I'm sure they see a difference, and there IS a difference - I see it also. BUT to a large segment of the population (in fact, the segment to whom that argument is going to appeal), there is simply little or no difference between their suspicion and fear of "foreigners,' terrorists, etc." and their suspicion and fear of blacks. Racism is, for most Americans, the only experience we have in hating and being afraid of a large, identifiable group of people - because of their membership in the group, nothing to do with their individual behavior. (Hating bullies, sadists, con men, etc. may be hating a group but membership in that group is based on an individual's actions.)
So while I'll accept that the message being *sent* by McCain isn't racist, I think it's true that the message is being received as such -- and the potential for violence is as real as if it the message had been intended.
Is that "unfair" to McCain, does it place an extra burden on him? Yep. If his opponent was a young white man who'd had some passing acquaintance with a 60s radical, he could be branded as unAmerican and the next thing to a terrorist without raising the spectre of racism. (And I'm sure he would be branded that way.) The same race-neutral message would be politics as normal not racism.
But, you know what? That "unfair burden" is really quite minimal compared to the unfair burden that has been placed on black politicians (and men and women who should have been black politicians and leaders) over the centuries. So -- too bad. Learn to live with it. Take it into account. And quit whining.
Obama has also had an 'unfair' burden - running for the highest office and being black. His campaign has been so seamless and UNcomplaining that we aren't aware of the contortions they have gone through to take into account the fact that he's black, the comments that they've had to think about first and re-word. The need for delicacy cuts both ways.
You know, it took me many years of living to realize that "but I didn't intend to do any harm" doesn't negate the harm that is done ... and it doesn't entirely absolve the person who unintentionally caused the harm. It simply raises another question: Was the harm they caused foreseeable and did the person who caused it take reasonable precautions against it? People are imprisoned for "negligent homocide" just as they are for "murder" - maybe for a shorter time, but it's still a crime.
I think that's a fair standard to apply to McCain in this situation. Whatever his original intentions, the situation right now is that his campaign has created an atmosphere of racial division, anger, and potential violence. Given that FACT, should he have thought a second before using the term "whip" with all it's images or substituted something like "beat"? I think so. It's not a big issue, certainly not as big as the economy or the war -- but he's not being 'victimized' because some people are upset at his negligent use of a loaded, painful expression.
October 13, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
But McCain said it when he was in Virginia. How can we know it wasn't an intentional dog whistle as opposed to bad karma?
October 13, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no way to know for sure ... but for the most part it's largely irrelevant, I think.
That's another lesson learned from Joe Biden (and by him from Mike Mansfield): don't question the other person's motives. It isn't necessary and only creates a new problem. Even if it wasn't intentional on McCain's part, it was (in my opinion) negligent, and therefore in my opinion) wrong. And, in actual fact, it was something that upset people on both sides of the issue (some who found it offensive and hurtful, others who got upset about the reactions of the first people) and something that, once again, wound up injecting race into things. That's the reality and all that really matters with respect to the election.
If I had to put money on it, I'd guess that it was unintentional because he wasn't raised in the south or involved in civil rights and probably doesn't have those visceral reactions to the idea of "whipping" I'd guess that, to him, 'whip' is no different than saying 'beat' or 'best' or 'overcome.'
Actually, there are probably words from the military world that would act as a dog whistle to him but mean nothing to you or me. But, to complete that analogy, if you or I had been involved in a course of action that created a big divide and possible violence between those in the military and those with no military background, it would behoove us to think a little more carefully than usual about the terms we used.
What I would really like to see in these situations would be someone who is candid and humble enough to say "You know, I didn't mean anything racial when I used that term but I do know that racial violence is something people have been sensitized to and, now that it's called to my attention, I regret using the term "whip" and wish I'd used the word "___" instead." That acknowledges the upset that was, unintentionally, caused, tells those who think they heard a dog-whistle that they did not, but stands up for the innocence of their intentions.
(In truth, I think that's how Obama would handle a situation like this. Whether people believe him or not is their problem, but he's on record.)
October 13, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy, how's that Intrade investment going for you?
October 13, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Billy Glad,
Off topic message.
The metaphor is an abysmal choice, as I don't want to "follow" you (nothing personal, it's just the kinda gal I am, like neither following nor leading) BUT
I'll admit it, I do want to follow what you are saying on this website. I've added about 20 people now that I WANT to "follow" (yeech I hate even having to use the word.) But I've clicked on your "follow me" link several times and it don't work, doesn't register as "following", keeps coming up as "follow me" andeveryone else's does.
Is this serendipity or conspiracy? Onea theme workerbee type plots? Or did you find the magic setting which might allow you to be the tree in the woods that when it falls no one hears it or the man howling at the moon on a lone mountaintop? :-)
October 13, 2008 11:41 PM | Reply | Permalink