« Media's Misplaced Obsession with Budget Cuts and Deficit Spending | Fooze's Blog | Looks Like McCain Vetted Joe the Plumber as Closely as Sarah Palin »

Joe the Plumber, Obama's Civility and a Defense of Progressive Taxation via a Sports Analogy


The following exchange between Barack Obama and a small business owner regarding his tax policy and the concept of progressive taxation should be watched by all because its fascinating and revealing in several respects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

First, I think Obama makes a compelling case for the sensibility and equity of his tax policy and progressive taxation principles in general.

Second, I think this exchange provides great insight into what kind of leader Barack Obama is and how he walks the walk on his promise to elevate the civility and discourse in this nation and rise above politics. In short, he was confronted by a person obviously opposed to his policies and rather than shun him or ignore him or call him names/stupid, Barack engaged him, respected his views and tried to explain in very real concrete ways, ways that the person himself can relate to, as to why his policies were good ones and might in fact be beneficial to the questioner. In the end, even if the man was not converted (unsure), it was clear they both walked away from the exchange better informed and with more respect for each other. Related to the last point, it's a great contrast to how we see the right and McCain/Palin treat their opponents. If a person opposed GOP tax policies, he/she's either ignored altogether or just demonized as a socialist in favor of income redistribution - there is simply no acknowledgment by McCain/Palin that there may be merit to the position or respect warranted. This civility in discourse is something we've seen in all Barack's appearances, including the debates. I do not think we can underestimate how important a "Change" this is and how much further it'll bring us as a nation as we aspire to bridge divides and heal wounds of partisanship.

Third, I think this shows that Barack is not scared to tackle tough issues, where others may run away from these challenges. Dems have often run away from frank discussions of tax policy or arguments for "progressive taxation" because they were afraid of making the case for it. Barack made a good case for it in a realistic context.

I have always thought that Progressive Taxation is a no-brainer for any civilized society that wants to be successful in the long term. I think the struggle has always been over how to frame the issue and explain it in a way that makes sense. As I said, I think Barack did a good job above. But I also think beyond appeals to fairness and equity, another line of argument can be that Progressive Taxation is misbranded as socialism. In reality, it's actually a capitalistic enterprise that we see play out in all walks of life.

One way to think of this and explain it to every day folks is through an analogy to how a sports franchise runs its business - no doubt a capitalistic endeavor. Think of what we see in ticket pricing all over the map. A sports franchise sets its policy with a set budget (expected revenue) in mind. It realizes that some seats are better than others and offer more amenities (better views, more comfort, proximity, etc.). It recognizes that its constituents are not all equally positioned from a financial perspective. It recognizes that if its cost is too severe in either direction, it risks alienating the top or the bottom and losing revenue. It recognizes there is alternatives to doing business with it (cable, other franchises, minor leagues), albeit remote (just like a taxpayer can be potentially disincentivized and choose to do less/no business or take his/her business out of the country - things that are possible, though they require effort). And it's key to realize that this is just illustrative and not meant to be exact, but the counter-argument that one has the choice to say no to higher prices with regard to buying tickets is really not a valid distinction or inapposite here, because just like that - I'd argue that the ones who are complaining (i.e., the rich) do not have to benefit from the great US economy (or make millions of dollars so as to qualify for higher taxes) if they don't like the tax consequences.

The key here is that in every instance, what you see as the solution that emerges is a progressive (not proportional or flat) pricing policy that charges significantly higher prices for the better seats and lower prices for the worse seats so that it can keep these seats affordable for all. A flat rate simply wouldn't work because of the reality that the landscape is unequal. A proportional rate simply won't work for much of the same reason, because too many folks get priced out at the bottom end. So in effect, what you get is redistribution/subsidizing. The pricing is tweaked (by reacting to the market reactions - free market) to hit the spot that you achieve your revenue goal and sell-out the place.

At the end of the day, despite gripes (nothing is ever easy) most recognize the inherent necessity and fairness of this concept in this context - so hopefully they can see the translation.  The tax policy can be likened to this in every respect. The progressive tax rates are tweaked to achieve rates that invite maximum participation and obtain the desired budgetary revenues. The benefit of the bargain is still worth it, and more people get to benefit/participate.


7 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

I'm not sure I get the sports analogy.

But here's a question - should a large portion of America get tickets to the game for free? That might help the team boost concession sales in the short run but over the long run won't the team owner lose money on giving away seats for free?

That's what Obama is proposing for many people who currently don't pay taxes today. They're going to get refundable tax credits even when they don't pay taxes today. That's not an incentive to work harder or get an education.

user-pic

Thanks for consistent helpful comments. As I said, this is illustrative and not a pefect analogy. But please keep in mind the concept of progressive taxation (what I was defending above) is different than tax credits for those who don't pay taxes (a controversial and disputed characterization of an aspect of Obama's Tax Policy that I would not defend). Progressive Taxation is concerned with tax policies for those that are actually paying taxes (i.e., buying tickets) and the effective tax rates for them.

user-pic

Also - keep in mind that there's a difference between federal taxes and income taxes. Just because someone doesn't pay income taxes to IRS, does not mean they didn't pay federal taxes, like Social Security, etc.

user-pic

I think you mean there is a distinction between income taxes and payroll taxes. Social Security is a payroll tax.

user-pic

Thanks for posting this entire video.

I say that because many in the media have taken that "spread the wealth around" quote waaaaay out of context. I couldn't believe it myself; I thought this would be looped for days on Fox News. OK, maybe they're still playing it ad nauseam.

They're trying their damnedest to paint Obama as a no-questions-asked socialist when he is indeed willing to give and take a little. Our country may move to the left, but this exchange shows that Obama will likely be a pragmatic President rather than a ruler with an iron fist.

user-pic

From a devoted McCain-ite who tried to "warn" the McCain campaign not to "go there" with Joe the Plumber.

"Joe the Plumber Wurzelbacher related to Charles Keating. Oops.

..... of the Keating Five scandal! They thought they had a real live Joe Six-Pack whos spurned Barack Obamas tax plan.

But what they forgot to do was check on Joe Wurzelbachers background. Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio.

Whos Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keatings son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan.

The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not. But on a night when McCain accused Obama of guilt-by-association, this isnt going to look good for us.

This might remind you of the Paris Hilton scandal - where one side of the McCain campaign attacked her in an ad, not realizing that her family were huge donors. "

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/

user-pic

I just want to clarify something that McCain claimed, that the "average" annual healthcare premium was $5,000. I'm not certain where he is getting his data (or what century), but that number is not even in the ballpark. It is about $1,000 per month to cover a 40 something, healthy individual. Since workers are normal between 20 something and 60 something, I think a 40 something person represents the average worker.

That worker would be taxed on $12,000 per year and receive a $5,000 tax credit. If that person loses insurance, the $5,000 tax credit (that can be taken 4 months after the year end) is not cash. It isn't going to pay for a policy unless you receive the entire amount as a refund. Remember 4 months have already gone by and you've had to fork out your 1st and 2nd quarter premiums for your new individual policy that is probably about $15,000 per year, since your not with a group anymore.

Premiums increase about 15-20% annually. Is this credit going to keep pace with that. I expect not.

How is this a good healthcare policy exactly?

Leave a comment

Fooze

user-pic

Following:
Followers: 2

Posts
Comments & Recommends


Favorites

All Reader Posts
How to use myTPM

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address