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<updated>2009-11-22T03:03:07Z</updated>

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<entry>
<title>Where Does This Leave Us?</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/where_does_this_leave_us.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303389</id>
<published>2009-11-22T02:25:57Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-22T03:03:07Z</updated>
<summary>The takeaway from today&apos;s debate is that the conservative Democratic senators have not budged on a public option. They&apos;ve been persuaded not to block the bill from going to the floor for debate, but beyond that it doesn&apos;t appear any...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>The takeaway from <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/senate-debates-historic-health-care-bill.php?ref=fpa">today's debate</a> is that the conservative Democratic senators have not budged on a public option. They've been persuaded not to block the bill from going to the floor for debate, but beyond that it doesn't appear any deal has been struck to get their votes on the next and more important cloture vote. </p>

<p>You might attribute that in part to the Dem holdouts wanting to enjoy their moment of maximum leverage for as long as they can, right up until the next vote later this year. But it's wishful thinking to conclude that's the only thing going on here. Blanche Lincoln's floor speech in particular seemed to foreclose her being able to plausibly turn around later and vote for a public option. You can't come out as <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/lincoln-ill-filibuster-a-public-option-bill.php">strongly against it</a> as she did and then vote for it anyway without seriously compounding your political problems back home.</p>

<p>The only reasonable reading of today's developments is that while the Dems will get 60 votes this evening they are still short of the 60 they need to get to a final vote on a bill that includes an opt out public option. Couple that with the fact that there is 100% guaranteed to be a health care reform bill in some shape or form passed by the Senate, and you're left with somebody needing to strike a deal to get this done. </p>]]>
<![CDATA[<p>We reported earlier that, according to one Senate aide, Sen. Chuck Schumer has been <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/dem-aide-schumer-dealmaking-on-public-option-inappropriate.php">trying to map out a compromise</a> that would switch the public option from an opt out version to some form of triggered public option that would satisfy the Democratic holdouts (and maybe Olympia Snowe). This apparently ticked off some of the opt out proponents in the Senate, though Schumer's office is <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/spokesman-schumers-not-involved-in-trigger-negotiations.php">vigorously denying to us</a> that Schumer has had any role in any such negotiations. </p>

<p>Pissed at Schumer? Really?</p>

<p>No one's been as committed to the public option as Schumer, and our reporting has suggested that it's very unlikely that the public option would be in the bill today were it not for Schumer's efforts. But for all his work to get a public option through, Schumer is still a pragmatist, and surely he's known for several days what's becoming obvious to all of us today: they don't have the votes. So I'm not sure I get why anyone would be pissed at him for trying to come up with a compromise that gets the votes and preserves as much of the public option as possible. </p>

<p>I mean I "get it" -- emotions are raw and no one who's pushed hard for public option is going to be happy to see it watered down more. But at this point you're just denying reality if you think all that the Dems need to do to get the waverers to come around is stand together in a show of unity. Lieberman is a no. Snowe is a no. Nelson, Landrieu and Lincoln are tepid at best. Whatever peer pressure could be brought to bear is heavily diluted when you're four votes short. If it were one lone holdout, maybe. But four?</p>

<p>I don't have any independent knowledge about whether Schumer's been trying to forge a compromise. But it sure wouldn't surprise me. I'd be more surprised, given what we now know about the lack of votes (or, more precisely, what we've pretty much known but have had confirmed today), if Schumer were <em>not</em> trying to find a compromise. Somebody's got to. This isn't one where you get to just pick up the ball and take it home with you. You still have to play, even if the outcome is guaranteed to disappoint. </p>

<p><em>Late Update</em>: A couple of developments this evening that suggest this compromise Schumer is exploring may be where the action is at. </p>

<p>At his <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/reid-i-welcome-schumer-landrieu-and-carper-as-they-work-on-public-option-compromise.php?ref=fpb">presser</a> following tonight's vote, Harry Reid said, "I welcome Sen. Schumer, Landrieu and Carper -- Landrieu said that they're working together on a public option that's acceptable to [all parties]." </p>

<p>Not long after that, Schumer's spokesperson emailed us with a <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/spokesman-schumer-open-to-public-option-negotiations-but-they-havent-started.php">markedly less defensive statement</a>, in light of Reid's comment: </p>

<blockquote>Leading up to tonight's vote, some senators expressed a desire to discuss the public option currently in the Senate bill. Of course, Senator Schumer did not rule that out. But no such talks have yet taken place, and there is not any compromise at hand beyond what Leader Reid has already inserted into the bill. Senator Schumer remains a strong proponent of the opt-out, level playing field public option.</blockquote>

<p>That sounds like the pragmatic Schumer gearing up to go to work.</p>]]>
</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Bernie Sanders: I Want My Leverage!</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/bernie_sanders_i_want_my_leverage.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303407</id>
<published>2009-11-22T01:56:19Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-22T01:56:54Z</updated>
<summary>Meanwhile, on the other end of the liberal political spectrum, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) remains adamant in a statement issued this evening that his vote for a health care reform bill isn&apos;t guaranteed, though he stops short of saying he...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, on the other end of the liberal political spectrum, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) remains adamant in a <a href="http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/bernie-sanders-my-vote-for-the-final-bill-is-by-no-means-guaranteed.php">statement issued this evening</a> that his vote for a health care reform bill isn't guaranteed, though he stops short of saying he must have a public option in the final bill.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Filibuster Thwarted ... For Now</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/filibuster_thwarted_for_now.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303397</id>
<published>2009-11-22T01:08:02Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-22T01:15:50Z</updated>
<summary>On a 60-39 party line vote just now, Senate Democrats overcame an attempted Republican filibuster on health care reform. Determining who the lone senator not voting was. A Republican obviously ... more shortly. Late Update: Sen. Voinovich did not vote...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>On a 60-39 party line vote just now, Senate Democrats <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/senate-agrees-to-debate-health-care-bill.php">overcame an attempted Republican filibuster</a> on health care reform.</p>

<p>Determining who the lone senator not voting was. A Republican obviously ... more shortly.</p>

<p><em>Late Update</em>: Sen. Voinovich did not vote and was not present in the chamber, AFP's Olivier Knox <a href="https://twitter.com/OKnox/status/5933504196">reports</a>.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>The Cast Has Assembled</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/the_cast_has_assembled.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303395</id>
<published>2009-11-22T00:50:50Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-22T00:50:37Z</updated>
<summary>The only potential monkey wrench in tonight&apos;s vote was whether Max Baucus, who was tending to his sick mother in Montana, and Robert Byrd, himself in frail health, would actually be able to be physically present for the vote. But...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>The only potential monkey wrench in tonight's vote was whether Max Baucus, who was tending to his sick mother in Montana, and Robert Byrd, himself in frail health, would actually be able to be physically present for the vote.</p>

<p>But Baucus is apparently in the building, and Byrd just arrived. So we should be all set for a vote shortly.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>There&apos;s Your 60</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/theres_your_60.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303381</id>
<published>2009-11-21T19:27:26Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T19:29:36Z</updated>
<summary>Arkansas Sen. Blanche Lincoln just announced her support for bringing the health care reform bill to the floor for debate -- so that makes the Dems united ... on debating the bill. Not a surprise, but an important step. The...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Arkansas Sen. Blanche Lincoln just <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/60-blanche-lincoln-says-shell-support-health-care-debate.php">announced</a> her support for bringing the health care reform bill to the floor for debate -- so that makes the Dems united ... on debating the bill. Not a surprise, but an important step. The official vote later today still, but now everyone's put their cards on the table.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>What Have You Done For Me Lately?</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/what_have_you_done_for_me_lately.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303374</id>
<published>2009-11-21T19:09:38Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T19:12:01Z</updated>
<summary>Mary Landrieu says Harry Reid will have to make a tough call on the public option at some point very soon, and that Chuck Schumer&apos;s at the center of the trigger negotiations....</summary>
<author>
<name>Brian Beutler</name>
<uri>http://www.brianbeutler.com</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Mary Landrieu says Harry Reid will have to make a tough call on the public option at some point very soon, and that Chuck Schumer's <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/landrieu-says-reid-will-soon-realize-no-triggers-no-bill.php?ref=fpa">at the center of the trigger negotiations</a>. </p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>The Brett Favre Of HCR</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/the_brett_favre_of_hcr.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303365</id>
<published>2009-11-21T17:08:35Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T17:34:37Z</updated>
<summary>Mary Landrieu will finally announce her decision on how she&apos;ll vote today on cloture on the Senate floor in about 20 minutes. Hard to imagine she&apos;d go so far as to block the bill from even being debated. Then again,...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Mary Landrieu will finally <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/senate-debates-historic-health-care-bill.php?ref=fpa">announce her decision</a> on how she'll vote today on cloture on the Senate floor in about 20 minutes.</p>

<p>Hard to imagine she'd go so far as to block the bill from even being debated. Then again, you never know.</p>

<p><em>Late Update</em>: Landrieu <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/landrieu-to-vote-for-health-care-debate.php">will stick <em>with</em> her party and her President</a> ... for now.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Stupakified</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/stupakified.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303363</id>
<published>2009-11-21T16:19:21Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T16:21:35Z</updated>
<summary>In a statement to TPMDC, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) takes issue with that George Washington University study which found that his anti-abortion amendment would ultimately cause insurance companies to stop covering abortions....</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>In a <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/stupak-fires-back-at-gwu-study-says-abortion-amendment-no-bit-thang.php">statement to TPMDC</a>, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) takes issue with that George Washington University study which found that his anti-abortion amendment would ultimately cause insurance companies to stop covering abortions.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>UFC Senior Division</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/ufc_senior_division.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303358</id>
<published>2009-11-21T15:54:20Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T15:59:28Z</updated>
<summary>On the Senate floor this morning, Majority Leader Harry Reid dismissed David Broder as &quot;a man who has been retired for many years and writes a column once in a while.&quot; The jab came in response to Minority Leader Mitch...</summary>
<author>
<name>David Kurtz</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>On the Senate floor this morning, Majority Leader Harry Reid <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/reid-slams-broder-as-a-retiree-who-writes-a-column-once-in-a-while.php">dismissed David Broder</a> as "a man who has been retired for many years and writes a column once in a while."</p>

<p>The jab came in response to Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's citation of Broder's column set to appear tomorrow.</p>

<p>Broder is 80. Reid is 69.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Tweeting #hcr</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/hcr_tweet.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303351</id>
<published>2009-11-21T12:50:09Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T12:52:57Z</updated>
<summary>Sarah Palin tells her 25,000 Twitter followers just now: Thot I&apos;d stick w tour news on Twitter but can&apos;t help digress: Call senators! Tell &apos;em KILL THE BILL tonite;horrible govt healthcare takeover...</summary>
<author>
<name>Christina Bellantoni</name>

</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Sarah Palin tells her 25,000 Twitter followers just now:</p>

<blockquote>Thot I'd stick w tour news on Twitter but can't help digress: Call senators! Tell 'em KILL THE BILL tonite;horrible govt healthcare takeover</blockquote>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Converge! (If You Live Nearby)</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/converge_if_you_live_nearby.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303350</id>
<published>2009-11-21T12:24:23Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T12:25:02Z</updated>
<summary>A Tea Party group that had planned an event to &quot;converge&quot; on the Capitol for today&apos;s crucial test vote on health care clarifies - the event is for those &quot;within driving distance of DC&quot; who &quot;want to be there tomorrow...</summary>
<author>
<name>Christina Bellantoni</name>

</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>A Tea Party group that had <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/tea-partiers-plan-cloture-vote-rally-in-dc-tomorrow.php">planned an event to "converge" on the Capitol</a> for today's crucial test vote on health care clarifies - the event is for those "within driving distance of DC" who "want to be there tomorrow when the Senate votes in the cover of darkness on cloture."</p>

<p>Evan McMorris-Santoro has the <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/tea-partiers-declare-defeat-on-health-care.php">story</a>.</p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Golden Dukes</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/golden_dukes.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303333</id>
<published>2009-11-21T04:36:38Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T04:37:15Z</updated>
<summary>It&apos;s hard to believe we&apos;re coming up on the third annual Golden Duke Awards....</summary>
<author>
<name>Josh Marshall</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/joshmarshall.php</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>It's hard to believe we're coming up on the third annual <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008-dukes-winners.php">Golden Duke Awards</a>.  </p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Mysteries I Need Solved</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/mysteries_i_need_solved.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303331</id>
<published>2009-11-21T01:16:14Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T01:19:46Z</updated>
<summary>Anybody know what is behind the craze of right-wing journalists and politicians to dub themselves with J-Lo-esque and/or rap-like nicknames? You know what I&apos;m talking about, right? A particularly virulent trend in the Politico newsroom apparently. But not only there....</summary>
<author>
<name>Josh Marshall</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/joshmarshall.php</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Anybody know what is behind the craze of right-wing journalists and politicians to dub themselves with J-Lo-esque and/or rap-like nicknames?  You know what I'm talking about, right?  A particularly virulent trend in the <em>Politico</em> newsroom apparently.  But not only there. </p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>Rockin&apos; the DeREG, YO!</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/rockin_the_dereg_yo.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303330</id>
<published>2009-11-21T00:36:39Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T00:40:52Z</updated>
<summary>Meet right-wing rapper (aka, &quot;conservative hip-hop artist&quot;) Hi Caliber, the toast of the Tea Party circuit who recently appeared in the FreedomWorks-produced video &quot;Patriotic People.&quot;...</summary>
<author>
<name>Josh Marshall</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/joshmarshall.php</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>Meet right-wing rapper (aka, "conservative hip-hop artist") <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/busting-rhymes-in-the-name-of-tea-parties.php?ref=fpblg">Hi Caliber</a>, the toast of the Tea Party circuit who recently appeared in the FreedomWorks-produced video "Patriotic People." </p>]]>

</content>
</entry>

<entry>
<title>All About the 60</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/all_about_the_60.php" />
<id>tag:www.talkingpointsmemo.com,2009://2.303328</id>
<published>2009-11-21T00:18:23Z</published>
<updated>2009-11-21T00:19:52Z</updated>
<summary>A Senate Democratic Chief of Staff chimes in ... There is a lot of misplaced anger coming from many of our fellow progressives about Senate Democrats (which often is just shortened to &quot;The Democrats&quot;) inability to pass a robust healthcare...</summary>
<author>
<name>Josh Marshall</name>
<uri>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/joshmarshall.php</uri>
</author>


<content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/">
<![CDATA[<p>A Senate Democratic Chief of Staff chimes in ...</p>

<blockquote>There is a lot of misplaced anger coming from many of our fellow progressives about Senate Democrats (which often is just shortened to "The Democrats") inability to pass a robust healthcare reform bill, climate change, etc.</blockquote> ]]>
<![CDATA[<blockquote>However, I believe it's worth reminding folks that--as long as the Republican Senators hold together--we have to hold EVERY single Democratic Senator, including folks like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson, which is usually impossible unless the legislation in question gets substantially watered down. 

<p>So, what we might end up with is a Senate Democratic Caucus that holds 98% of its members but still fails to pass healthcare reform, AND a mob of angry progressives who are screaming for the heads of "the Democrats." This isn't fair, but more importantly, it's self-defeating. If progressives REALLY want to transform America, they'll make an issue of the anti-democratic rules of the Senate which make real change virtually impossible. Blasting their elected Democratic officials, the vast majority of whom will vote for the Senate bill (and would also support a more robust public option if we didn't need 60 votes to achieve cloture), may make folks feel good, but is both short-sighted and stupid.</blockquote> </p>]]>
</content>
</entry>

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